Current "build," Jacob Dubbs .62 smooth rifle

[blackjack]

I've been following the posts on here about the Dubbs rifle for some time, so I was basically informed when I met Larry Zornes at the Fort Frederick Market Fair in April.  He sold me on a kit which consisted of a Red Brush maple stock precarved in the Jacob Dubbs style, his M&G Continental flintlock, a 41" M&G octagon to round barrel (very thin at the end for an unusually good handling long rifle) and a set of wax molded brass furniture with the ornamentation already molded in.  It came with a silver solder-on front sight and a steel rear sight to dovetail into the top flat and a Bivens single trigger.  

I've been working on it off and on for a couple months now and have it together, looking good in the white.  Test fired it today and fine that it shoots generally to point of aim at 50 yards or so with a bare .61 round ball, but haven't gone to work on that yet.  When I finish it I'll try patched round balls of various sizes and see what it likes best.

My dilema for the moment is how or if I should carve and finish it.  I'm not a skilled carver or engraver, but have put out some passable items in the past.  The real issue is what features should absolutely always been on a Jacob Dubbs smooth rifle, so I can try to include them, and what should absolutely NOT be on said rifle.  I already put a hunters star on it, although I'm finding that there's not a lot of evidence for this adornment on Dubbs rifles, but hey,.... I like hunters stars.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be most welcome.

[A.Merrill]

I didn't know M&G made barrels.      Al

[Mike Brooks]

I'd buy some books that feature that particular maker and go from there.

[Pete G.]

Bad carving will really honk up an otherwise well made rifle. Since it is a smooth rifle, I would consider finishing without any carving, or at most maybe an incised scroll on each side of the comb.

[b bogart]

Not many puictures of a Dubbs (Daub) rifles out there. One I know of is in one of the Revolutionary War books on arms and accoutrement. The KRF will come out with a CD with one on it, so I understand. Good luck and let's see pictures.

[oldtravler61]

I would check the archives on this site.

[blackjack]

I didn't know M&G made barrels.      Al

I got the barrel directly from Larry at Fort Frederick and that's what I understood he said.  His catalog says they buy drilled and reamed blanks and finish them in the shop.

[blackjack]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  I've found a couple of examples to draw on and have made my choices.  Not a lot of carving on this one but it does have the aforementioned hunters star, a weeping heart and some carving around the tang.  Whiskering now and getting ready to stain.  Pics will be up when I get it done, but here's an in-the-white snap (the one on top).

[Mike Brooks]

Looks like you might consider triming down those lock panels a bit. Maybe make sure your trigger guard rear finial is inlet to the proper depth also, hard to tell from the pic but it looks a little proud.

[blackjack]

Thanks Mike, good points.

[rfd]

.... My dilema for the moment is how or if I should carve and finish it.  I'm not a skilled carver or engraver, but have put out some passable items in the past.  The real issue is what features should absolutely always been on a Jacob Dubb smooth rifle, so I can try to include them, and what should absolutely NOT be on said rifle.  I already put a hunters start on it, although I'm finding that there's not a lot of evidence for this adornment on Dubb rifles, but hey,.... I like hunters stars.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be most welcome.

looks like a very fine smoothie you have, very cool.  seeing how you want it to be as replica as possible of a dubb smoothie, you've really answered yer own question - scope out as much info on a dubb as possible and get to work, meticulously making your rifle as dubb as humanly possible.

and now, if i may ... does it really matter that your new beauty be as dead nuts a dubb as can be?  if that need and urge is strong, you know what to do, but otherwise why not make it into a blackjack interpretation of a dubb?  allow yourself the freedom of YOUR expression to enhance YOUR smoothie.  it's your work, your creation, not dubb's, give yerself a present of doing it your way.  and who's to say otherwise?        

[Pete G.]

Just an FYI: The furniture sold as Jacob Dubbs is actually copied from a rifle that is attributed to Issac Haynes. Look at # 79 in Shumay's Rifles of Colonial America.

[Mike Brooks]

Just an FYI: The furniture sold as Jacob Dubbs is actually copied from a rifle that is attributed to Issac Haynes. Look at # 79 in Shumay's Rifles of Colonial America.

No, say it isn't so!

They were  imported from continental Europe and seem to have been widely sold to gunmakers in N. America. Every contemporary "Dubb" gun I have seen has these mounts, probably because Tip made a kit around them. Nothing wrong with that, but "Dubb" probably made more guns with "standard" mounts than the particular mounts he is "famous" for today. All fun and games eh?

[rfd]

Just an FYI: The furniture sold as Jacob Dubbs is actually copied from a rifle that is attributed to Issac Haynes. Look at # 79 in Shumay's Rifles of Colonial America.

we only see the tip of gunmaker's products from 150 to 250 years ago.  who knows for sure what really happened and what all the missing links looked like and how they were made, what they were made of, who they were made for, and who made them?  far more questions, theories and conjectures exist than actual firearms.  it's a fair guess as to why mostly the better examples survived than those of the bourgeois and peasant farmers.  i can surely admire the beauty of a well bedecked artisan's firearm, but i think those are fewer and far between than what actually existed back then, and all the permutations of said guns.  personally, i could care less - i see as much beauty and grace in a barn gun as i view in a gilded lily version.

[blackjack]

Yeah Pete, I saw that after I got the parts.  I'm getting less and less enthusiastic about making it a"real Dubbs" whatever that means, as it seems those Roman nose "pre-engraved" butt plates were used by a lot of gun stockers.  However the stock feels great and shoulders very well for such a long rifle--much nicer than my others.  I'll be working on the lock panel and trigger guard seating this week and hopefully have some pics up by the weekend.

[Mike Brooks]

.... My dilema for the moment is how or if I should carve and finish it.  I'm not a skilled carver or engraver, but have put out some passable items in the past.  The real issue is what features should absolutely always been on a Jacob Dubb smooth rifle, so I can try to include them, and what should absolutely NOT be on said rifle.  I already put a hunters start on it, although I'm finding that there's not a lot of evidence for this adornment on Dubb rifles, but hey,.... I like hunters stars.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be most welcome.

looks like a very fine smoothie you have, very cool.  seeing how you want it to be as replica as possible of a dubb smoothie, you've really answered yer own question - scope out as much info on a dubb as possible and get to work, meticulously making your rifle as dubb as humanly possible.

and now, if i may ... does it really matter that your new beauty be as dead nuts a dubb as can be?  if that need and urge is strong, you know what to do, but otherwise why not make it into a blackjack interpretation of a dubb?  allow yourself the freedom of YOUR expression to enhance YOUR smoothie.  it's your work, your creation, not dubb's, give yerself a present of doing it your way.  and who's to say otherwise?        

Well your do it your way suggestion is one way to do it but the OP specifically asked for guidance in doing it right which is why alot of people here ask about that sort of thing, it makes a difference to them.
 I don't think I have anything on Dubb, otherwise I'd try to help or at least give direction to a specific resource.
 All for nought at this point as it sounds as though he's about got it wrapped  up know, should make a fine looking gun, the architecture was pretty good.
 BTW, I'd try a .600 ball and a .020 patch.

[rfd]

dubbs schumbs - make it a blackjack so that decades from now some keyboard jockey will wanna copy your creation. 

i'd recommend first going the easy way with a .600" ball and a good greased .010" tight yarn cotton patch, then work up to  .018".

[Ray Nelson]

Page 11 of Kentucky Rifles & Pistols 1750-1850 published by Golden Age Arms and James Johnston has photos of two rifles (one is buttstock remains only) attributed to Jacob Dubbs.

Dubbs was an early builder dating in the 1730's, 40's it appears using furniture imported from Germany.

The style is appealing and fairly simple offering leeway for you to build your smooth bore rifle.

Ray

[flehto]

Don't know anything about Dubbs, but his work seems to be Lehigh  or Bucks County and some w/ other influences.

Your Bplate looks the same as what I use on the bucks County builds but  the TG is slightly different than that of the BC that I use.

The butt architecture could be that of a BC LR.

I'm far from being an expert on anything, but your build could be a BC except for the TG.....Fred







 

[Ky-Flinter]

The replies regarding Short starters and 3F/4F powder have been split off and moved to the Blackpowder Shooting forum.  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=40785.0

The replies regarding loads for a .62 smooth rifle have been split off and moved to the Blackpowder Shooting forum.  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=40783.0

Let's try to stay on topic.  Thanks.

-Ron

[Tom Currie]

There are a few pictures of a signed Jacob Daubs rifle in Eric Armstrong's fine article in the Spring 2012 KRA Bulletin.  If you know a KRA member you might inquire if you could see the bulletin.

Jacob Daub signed rifles and pictures of them are very hard to come by.

[galudwig]

I would check the archives on this site.

Here is a nice example of a simple, yet beautifully executed Dubbs schimmel:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=34995.0

[blackjack]

Okay, I'm calling it finished.  I can always find one or two little things I want to fix, but they're just going to have to wait.  Took it out shooting clays yesterday and will go to work with round balls next week when it cools off a little.















BTW, it shoots best with a bare .61 round ball.  A .60 round ball and patch are very snug--a chore to get down the barrel--and don't get me a lot better accuracy.  A .58 round ball goes in easy and actually isn't a bad option, group just a little broader than the bare .61.  Still working on all this though.