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Author Topic: Questions on refurbishing  (Read 5106 times)

Sasquatch Sam

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Questions on refurbishing
« on: July 10, 2017, 09:08:01 PM »
HI -- I have a CVA kit Kentucky rifle That I built around 40 years ago. I'm looking to refurbish it for the practice - getting back into BP again.

Planning to go Golden Age on it, silver wire inlay, some wood carving, misc. brass inlays and ornate patch box to carve, and other stuff.

It's a plain buttstock with no cheek rest so I want to add one with surplus hardwood I've got hanging around. Has this been done successfully before? Any advice?

Also want to take the finish off the lock and have it plain steel. Right now it's got that weird blue n grey mottled look of heat applied to it and some standard boilerplate engraved design. How best to proceed? (barrel's browned so I want that to be plain steel too)

And where the butt stock and forestock meet at the brass joining plate is really ill-fitting, so should I add another joining plate to the first and re work it tight from there?

The finish: I'm looking for the right stain that will produce that really dark reddish almost black color. Can't seem to find it anywhere. Is it a multiple-stain mix?  It's got an nasty orangey-red stain on it now, I have no idea what stain color it is.

It's gonna be a lot of work and $ to apply to a lowly CVA kit gun, but I look at it as valuable education, so I can go on to build one from (almost) scratch later on. If I screw up now it's not a huge loss.

I oughta add that this year I already refurbished a CVA-kit Kentucky pistol and a CVA-kit Mountain Rifle but not as drastically as I am going for now with this project.

Thanks for any advice you can throw my way.

SS
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 10:33:41 PM »
Adding wood for a cheekpiece: for fit or style? I guess you will not be able to match wood type at all. If set on this path, plane a flat area on the cheek side and have at it. Hide glue or tite bond glue would work.

Current lock is color case hardened. Some people pay big money for this.

Fixing the joint: I dunno.

Why not restock the gun?

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Offline Joe S.

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 10:50:47 PM »
No expert here but with all the work you wana do would it not better to do a restock.One piece,cheek,better wood ect.I get the no big loss but your going to pretty much be pouring perfume on a pig to say,no offence.Man,just jump in the deep end,folks here are great life guards and will help you out.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 10:56:38 PM »
I'd sell it and get some real parts to work with. Why go through all that work and end up with a restocked CVA?
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Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 01:05:36 AM »
SS, old boy, you are starting out pretty much like I did. I bought a botched CVA kit a friend of a friend put together for $20 and started over. And, like Mike said I put a lot of work into it and ended up with a restocked CVA. But I also got a lot of experience, and you have many advantages I didn't. This was before the internet, before Dixon's, before there were so many parts and books available. 

But first, a bit more information. Flint or percussion? Does it shoot well? Do you like the way the stock fits? Have you bought any books on long rifle building? Do you live anywhere near Dixon's (Kempton, PA)?

I would suggest you buy a new, plain stock. Inletting and shaping the stock are basic skills and should (in my opinion) be mastered first. And a new stock will make a world of difference in the result.

My wife just announced dinner. Gotta go. More later.

Dale H

« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 05:15:35 AM by Dale Halterman »
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 03:52:04 AM »
   If it was me I would not put all that work into it. That being said an after all that work. It's still a low value rifle at best. If you don't care go for it. Years ago I did something simular. Wished now I hadn't wasted all that time on it. An purchased quality parts an making a much better gun.
  But it is your gun an your choise.  Oldtravler
 
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 04:19:22 AM »
Hi Ya Sam,

First, welcome to ALR, home of those addicted to all things Long Rifle.  You will get a lot of answers here, most of them on the money, but slanted toward the opinion of the answer-er.  But then, it's like that every where.

If the bore of the rifle is good, I say take that CVA and doll her up!  I'll add some pictures of the one I did, if I can find them. 

Send me a PM with your address and I'll send you a piece of wood for your applied cheek piece that may come close to matching your stock.

Enjoy the journey.

-Ron
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Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 06:20:28 AM »
Sam,
I found the pictures......

This was fun and I learned a lot.  I made a new nose cap, side plate and patchbox from sheet brass, filed flats on the existing ramrod pipes and added a "tail" to the entry pipe.  Added a raised cheek piece.  Made a new trigger and pinned it higher to improve the pull.  Fire blued the barrel and screws.  Sanded off all the old finish, then stained with Aqua Fortis followed with a wash of Laurel Mountain Forge Nut Brown stain with a drop or 2 of cherry mixed in.  Finished with many coats of Jim Chambers oil finish.  Once complete I gave it to my nephew at deer camp, Nov. 2011.  He still doesn't know it's junk. ;)   He thinks it's great.  He hunts with it and has killed deer and wild hogs.



























-Ron
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 06:26:25 AM by Ky-Flinter »
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Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 07:37:14 AM »
Ron, Wow!  That it probably the nicest CVA ever done. 

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Offline grabenkater

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 02:36:31 PM »
WOW!
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n stephenson

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 03:45:02 PM »
Ron, Scota took the words right out of my mouth. That HAS to be the nicest CVA on the planet. Nice Job!!!    Nate
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 03:50:10 PM »
They can also be quite accurate shooters.
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 06:49:22 PM »
  Ron well done. As the ole saying goes. I'll bite my tongue. She looks great. But I still would have done a one piece stock. Thanks for showing.  Mike
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Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 07:03:19 PM »
 ;) ;)... I do believe you have graduated..... now, get a Kibler or Chambers kit & build it YOUR way.....then... "from scratch"... !!! ....congrats,... Well Done........!!!
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Sasquatch Sam

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 09:35:12 PM »
Thanks for all the input guys - some very useful nuggets to think on. I'm at work right now and we have a firewall so I can't look at the pics till I get home.

Another question:  Do I need an FFL to work on longrifles? Also, If I were to get an operational one off some online venue, do I have to have it shipped to an FFL dealer?

Thanks again!
SS
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 12:08:31 AM »
  Sam no you do not need an FFL to build a longrifle. As far as buying one online. I don't believe you do.
  Check with your local gun store.
  But if you live in California. That's  different an I have no idea. Oldtravler
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Offline bgf

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 02:44:42 AM »
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 05:06:00 AM by bgf »
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Sasquatch Sam

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 02:55:55 AM »
Wow! amazing pics -- I'm inspired big time now -Thanks!

SS
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Offline mountainman70

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 03:33:32 AM »
As to the 2 piece stock thing---- there are existing examples of percussion era long rifles purposely made to take down and put in a travel case made for them.That way,on a train or coach,the case would only need be a bit longer than the barrel/breech plug/tang.
I have seen several of them at the ohio Longrifles show in Marrietta,Ohio,and have built 2.
I gotta add my WOW to the reworked CVAs shown. Great work guys.
 Have a goodun,welcome to the forum,and good luck.  Dave F 8)
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Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 12:41:17 PM »
Tell you what, Sasquatch...you have a goal, some heart, and Ron's example to chase after.  Go for it.

If you screw up too many operations, buy one of their stocks and start over.

If you don't, you'll get a little beauty you'll be proud of.

Two of my most fun projects turned out to be converting an Indian Brown Bess to a good gun from a Tomato Stake and re-working a Pedersoli Jaeger into more of a Lancaster gun because I learned so much as to not waste time and money on more expensive kits and parts.

Good luck and,
Don't shoot yore eye out, kid
The Capgun Kid
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Offline axelp

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 07:47:11 PM »
you do not need an FFL involved to buy or ship muzzleloaders to CA.
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 04:50:48 AM »
  Ken thanks for that information. I plan on shipping one to my brother. Thank you very much. Oldtravler
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Offline yulzari

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 01:31:30 PM »
Go for it Sam. Yes it will be a CVA at the end of the day but you have to begin somewhere and it is a good item on which to learn with minimum cost. Good hand work takes as long on a cheap rifle as an expensive one but the (inevitable) mistakes are also cheaper. With this one under your belt you can take on the next project knowing what you can do and better risk your wallet.
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 08:26:00 PM »
Mr. Sasquatch - beautiful work.

I might suggest getting rid of that brass spacer by putting in a wood shim of matching thickness, keep two pins and glue it however suits you.
My own workmanship is not up to the standards of this site, but I am very slowly in process of turning my percussion Traditions kit (current suppliers of Spanish rifles formerly from CVA) into a Leman Indian rifle. .50 cal and ~33" barrel just right for one of his 1860 Gov't rifles. Got some antique solid brass tacks, some mule deer rawhide & read up on painting them there stripes on it. Plan one dark stripe to hide my fantastic work putting in that wood shim.

If you don't like the lock, L&R has one meant specifically to replace the Traditions/CVA one. I have no personal experience with it, can't say if it really fits. 

With respect to those who disparage the Spanish rifles, well, the basic part of the rifle is the barrel. I am a metallurgist who likes tough barrel steels, and when something goes wrong the Spanish steel tends to bulge or split, rather than shatter like your favorite American barrel steel. Mr. Murphy is a dear cousin of mine & being a law-abiding sort, I prefer a barrel more tolerant of things going wrong.

Some prefer the Lyman Italian made rifles. Traditions just happened to have one that suited & fit me.
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Offline bgf

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Re: Questions on refurbishing
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 10:26:04 PM »
This link is to old post when I remembered how/what I did
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9881.msg93677#msg93677

The splice was done by drilling ramrod channel and brass spacer out to 1/2" at the joint.  I then inserted a 6" (approximately) length of 1/2" O.D. tubing (inside was ~3/8" to allow ramrod to pass through, cutting the brass spacer flush with barrel side flats and short at bottom, leaving enough for the pins.  Epoxied everything together and let cure.  I then cut a dovetail in the bottom of stock and glued a piece of wood in.  After that set, I dovetailed pieces in both sides.  After they set, I worked the patches down to stock profile.  With combination of matching grain, non-square lines on patches due to dovetail, and heavy stain work, the joint is pretty hard to detect.  Looking back, it probably wasn't necessary, but at the time I hated the two piece stock!  Plus it was a chance to practice stock "repair", and trying out as many different things as possible was one of the project objectives.
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