TC Hawken Load Suggestion

[retired fella]

Important note.  Be SURE that your patching material is 100% cotton.  Any synthetic blend will melt in your barrel and cause big trouble.  A test of this is to take a swatch (not in the store) and burn it.  If there is any bubble up that tells me it is not 100% cotton.  It should burn to a char.

[Nessmuck]

It might be sacrilidge....but way back in 1980... we shot 325 maxi with 90 grains of powder 2ff...and bench rest at 50 yards...we would make a clover leaf hole with 5 shots...open sights.

[rich pierce]

It might be sacrilidge....but way back in 1980... we shot 325 maxi with 90 grains of powder 2ff...and bench rest at 50 yards...we would make a clover leaf hole with 5 shots...open sights.

Sounds painful.

[little joe]

100 percent Cotton or linnin for  patching.

[Nessmuck]

It might be sacrilidge....but way back in 1980... we shot 325 maxi with 90 grains of powder 2ff...and bench rest at 50 yards...we would make a clover leaf hole with 5 shots...open sights.

Sounds painful.

It left a mark..lol

[Daryl]

Mine (1974) cast at 370gr. for the .50 cal., 228gr. was advertised for the .45's and my girl friend's mould cast 128gr. for the .36.  I seem to recall the 54's were 420 to 440gr.
Yes- loads usually ran 90 to 110gr. 2F, just as THEY advertised. The recoil was only really bad on the cheek bone due to the 2x6 stock wood TC used - not enough drop at the comb.
Recoil, of course is subjective and dependent on body shape, weight, etc. Some feel it more than others- and differently too, at different times in their lives.

Cloverleafs usually only have 3 petals, the odd one has 4.

[OldMtnMan]

Yes, and we call it the lucky one.

[Bob Roller]

It might be sacrilidge....but way back in 1980... we shot 325 maxi with 90 grains of powder 2ff...and bench rest at 50 yards...we would make a clover leaf hole with 5 shots...open sights.

Sounds painful.

That's a 45-90 load for a breech loader.Painful is a 550 grain bullet
with a 90 grain charge like a long range muzzle loader uses.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

One thing I feel should be brought up about these guns.
In the early 1970's when they first appeared there were
some sad experiences with blown breech plugs and some
horrible injuries.The people making these guns had NO
real knowledge of muzzle loaders and the breech plug was a
casting and when the flats on the plug and the barrel didn't
line up the breech would be forced into the "correct" position
and it could and did create a fracture line thru the last thread
of the plug.How many of these early guns are still in use is
anyone's guess and hopefully none still are.These were long
ago defects and I have heard of none in years causing a problem.
Let's hope it stays that way.

Bob Roller

[Nessmuck]

I can shoot my Smoothy 20 bore with a .600 ball with 85 FFF ....about 20 times ..before tapping out..

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I can shoot my Smoothy 20 bore with a .600 ball with 85 FFF ....about 20 times ..before tapping out..

Your problem is you're using 3Fg.  I use 85 gr. of 2Fg GOEX and a .609" ball with .020" patch and can shoot until I'm bored without bruising.  But mine is a Chamber's Penn Fowling piece...nice stock design.

[Mike_StL]

Since you have a used T/C Hawken, you might be interested in getting the T/C manual.  https://www.tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/Hawken_Manual.pdf

My first rifle was a T/C Hawken.  I used a maxi ball as "everybody knew that round balls were not effective".  Well that maxi ball load was punishing on my shoulder but quite accurate with Crisco as bullet lube.  I learned that round balls were effective and accurate.

Don't necessarily believe all the self promotion in the T/C manual for their lubricants.  The ToW mink oil will be a better lubricant for hunting.  Spit works for target range, but a oil based lubricant that can be used for both targer and hunting will make your experience more consistent and enjoyable.

Do chase down the threads on keeping your rifle clean.  The fouling of any muzzle loading gun propellant is corrosive whether the fouling is apparent or not.   Warm water with a few drops of grease cutting dish detergent will clean the bore.  Dry it well and use a rust preventing lubricant to protect the gun between shooting sessions.  Always wipe with an alcohol patch to remove oils from the bore before loading.  Oils bind with the fouling to make a hard crusty mess in your bore.  So while fouling is inevitable, there is no need to make matters worse than they need to be.

Welcome to muzzle loading!

[Nessmuck]

I can shoot my Smoothy 20 bore with a .600 ball with 85 FFF ....about 20 times ..before tapping out..

Your problem is you're using 3Fg.  I use 85 gr. of 2Fg GOEX and a .609" ball with .020" patch and can shoot until I'm bored without bruising.  But mine is a Chamber's Penn Fowling piece...nice stock design.

Mine is a Tulle de chasse...

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This thread is about T/C Hawkens, and I hesitate (for a split second) to undermine it.
The felt recoil from a Tulle musket is considerably more than from a good English or American fowling piece.  That 'pied de vache' buttstock with its excessive pitch, and small comb drop is a punishing design.
The T/C Hawken design is similar in that they elected to use a very straight stock design - likely to utilize stock wood planks that eliminate waste and therefore reduce construction cost...you can build a less expensive gun from a 2 x 6 that you can from a 2 x 8.  Consequently, T/C put their sights way up in the air, to get your face away from the comb.  If you change T/C's factory sights to a primitive arrangement, you'll notice a significant increase in cheek slap.

[DarrinG]

First, thanks to everyone for all the great advice I've gained here. 

Today I ~finally~ got to get out and shoot this new rifle a little. I've been acquiring accessories and such to shoot this gun while the weather has been rainy, snowy and windy! The wind today almost made me forgo trying to shoot some, but like a new penny, this rifle was begging me to shoot her a little. I did eventually find Goex powder at a shop about 45 miles away and bought 2 cans (FFg) to make my trip worthwhile. The shop was quite high on their price, but hey, I was there and they had it.

Anyhow, I set up a bench and loaded the rifle with 70 grains of Goex FFg, a .490 round ball patched with a .015 patch lubed with Trapper Mink Oil and fired away. My target was only 40 yards. I didn't set it up further due to the howling wind.

I gotta say I really enjoyed shooting this rifle today and think it's gonna be a pretty accurate gun for whitetail hunting. I'm looking forward to testing the accuracy out to 75 yards next time out.

Here is the first 8 shots (ignore the 22 bullet holes my daughter shot into the target  ):



Is this decent grouping for only 40 yards? Or should I expect better (maybe a thicker patch?)? I didn't swab any between shots and had no difficulty reloading.

My daughter captured one picture I thought was a neat photo:



Again, thanks for all the good advice.

[smylee grouch]

Cool photo and with a little more testing(keep notes) I think you can tighten up your groups. A thicker patch and make sure your crown is smooth. Only change one variable at a time.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You are off to a great start.  Your group is acceptable, depending on your vision, sights, and shooting experience.  But a nice start.  Try other loads, even five gr. apart and record the results.  You will find your rifle's happy place.
That puff of smoke at the breech is the hammer coming off the nipple, allowing gas to escape.  That's a result of T/C's flabby coil spring instead of a traditional "V" mainspring.

[Daryl]

I will add to Taylor's post that your method of resting the gun is VERY odd.  I suggest moving the front rest back to underneath your hand that is holding the forend.

My .50 TC shot best with 85gr. 2F, a .495" ball and .022" denim patch.  The crown on your rifle might nor allow seating that combination in the bore. It needs help, such as this.




This is a TC .50 cal. barrel crown I made using the above method.  It will allow the ball and patch to draw and conform to the bore, making a tight fitting accurate combination. It is easily with a short starter, with practise.

[DarrinG]

Thanks for the replies and good advice. Its appreciated!

I've read a lot about patch thickness and accuracy. I must say (from my very limited experience) the .015 patch was fairly tight in my barrel. I didn't have to pound a short starter or anything but it sure felt that the .015 patch and .490 ball was fitting fairly tight into the barrel. The wind was so bad that apparently my patches were blown into the next county shortly after the shot because I didn't find any of them to inspect. I've also read elsewhere that a really tight patch is not necessary for accuracy. I guess I need to shoot some more and see for myself what this rifle barrel likes.

[Tim Ault]

I'd say your 15 thou patches are sealing the bore ok if you can load 8 or so shots without swabbing and it still loads easily in that shallow groove barrel  ,my dads 45 TC with the .010 thick patch he uses can only shoot two in a row without a swab if not he has to beat the next one down the barrel . Your accuracy looks acceptable easily minute of deer ! As been said try upping and or lowering the charge 5 gr and see what happens

Tim

[Daryl]

I can shoot my Smoothy 20 bore with a .600 ball with 85 FFF ....about 20 times ..before tapping out..

Your problem is you're using 3Fg.  I use 85 gr. of 2Fg GOEX and a .609" ball with .020" patch and can shoot until I'm bored without bruising.  But mine is a Chamber's Penn Fowling piece...nice stock design.

Norm uses 85gr. 3F in his 20 bore. Thick spit patch, no wiping.