"sporterized" military muskets?

[greywuuf]

Was it done ? Has anyone seen examples ? I know at one time it was all the rage to cut down full stock bolt action. Rifles and make them stupid ....uh I mean "sleeker" ...to the point that it is now hard to find a good example of a issue style Mauser. I am wondering if it was ever a "thing" ...say after the new fangled percussion guns were catching on to take a surplus flinter and rework it in a more "contemporary" style.   I would love to see examples of something liken this.

[Pukka Bundook]

Grey,

Yes, we see a good few muskets chopped.   Both barrels and wood.  Brown Besses, and such.  I hav eone to re-stock. Woodworm ate the last one . It's all rusted and pitted, but has Irish registrration marks, so was there in the "tatie famin".
Barrel is about 27" and the (EIC lock has had the steel re-faced.   Lock is a Henshaw, 1793. 

We also see a lot of Snider-Enfields  with chopped wood and barrel as well at times.  I think when it came to breech-loaders, it was easier to chop them, as there was no need for the ramrod, so half stocks could be done with less work.
Think I have 4 or 5 chopped Sniders.  One had the stock "sporterised" with a bread knife by looks of it.  Used it for years for putting down sick cows, bulls and such.

Believe Manuel Lisa used a cut down Brown Bess....

ATB,
Richard.

[greywuuf]

I had heard Lisa carried a Bess, I did not hear it was chopped....thank you for that ......I am asking because I have an eic Bess lock in rough shape and a smooth bore barrel blank of about 72 caliber ......but I have no particular interest in a Bess, .....Was thinking of making a shorter half stock ....maybe along the lines of a HF 1803

[Justin Urbantas]

I know after the U.S. Civil war lots of Springfields and Enfields, were cut down and bored out to smoothbore and sold cheap to farmers etc...

[Clark Badgett]

Yes, old muskets were cut down and sporterized. I would guess it was somewhat common. Like I said in another thread a month or so back, every surplus smooth musket offered for sale in the US sold quite rapidly. They were an affordable functional shotgun. Remember that early in the US Civil War most of the available smooth muskets were converted to percussion (when possible) and issued by both sides in massive numbers as rifle-muskets were in very short supply.

I've seen many "sporterized" smoothbores, but very few "sporterized" rifles, most were done rather crudely with Gemmer in St. Louis being the one of the exceptions.

[Bigmon]

My French 1774 musket with a US Surcharge had the stock cut back, but fortunaltly not the barrel.  A previous owner has done a good job adding back to the stock.  It is my favorite piece of all, being a Rev War veteran.
I also have had several civil war muskets that had been ruinized, er' I mean sporterized.  As well as Krags, K98's, 03's.  It was the fad back in the 60's and 70's..  Take a $15 military rifle and make a hunting gun.
Now commercial hunting rifles are $3-400 and unaltered US military rifles are double that and more.

[Elnathan]

Here is a "sporterized" 1841: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10590.msg100427#msg100427

This one is a pretty nice conversion, and I like it rather better than the original, I think.

I'm not really sure that the concept of "sporterizing" guns really applies to earlier guns, though, as there wasn't such a huge distinction between military and civilian styles. The differences were more size and weight than stock design. There are certainly a LOT of old guns built with recycled older parts, including military parts, though.

Edited to add: "Earlier" meaning before the half-stock became a common civilian style. I should probably clarify that.

[Bob Roller]

I know after the U.S. Civil war lots of Springfields and Enfields, were cut down and bored out to smoothbore and sold cheap to farmers etc...

I bought in 1964 from Turner Kirkland a Colt CW rifle for $65 that had been smooth bored.
I had Bill Large rebarrel it for me and used it for several years.
As I posted earlier,one of the masters of the muzzle loading target rifle,N.G.Whitmore earned
a good part of his income reaming these military guns into small game guns.The Colt was one
of Turner's purchases in Belgium.

Bob Roller

[yulzari]

This is my British Pattern 1841 Artillery Carbine as modified as a civilian shotgun.



It has a nice hold. Originally it looked like this:

[TP]

Cut down (sporterized) military longarms used to be quite common on the market, they were the poor man's shotgun.  Smooth-bore and rifle muskets were used in this way.  Some well done and some down by the shade tree gunsmith, all were effective for their intended purpose. 

Back when I first started collecting, they could be found at many auctions and were common at gun shows, usually selling for anywhere from $25 to $75.  Those with un-cut barrels sold at the top end of that range and could be put back into original condition if and when parts could be found.  My best buy in those days was an 1806 dated Virginia Manufactory musket with cut wood but a full length barrel.  I paid $125 for it and while that was high, I was more than happy to pay that for a rare gun in any condition.

[retired fella]

60 years ago my uncle gave me a .62caliber rifled that he found in the rafters of an old house that he had bought.  Later I was told by a fellow that it was probably made in Europe (no marks).  It was sporterized to half stock, no bayonet lug.  Probably CSA issue.  Lock still works strong.  Not loaded, I checked.

[Metalshaper]

I know its a percussion and a Muley.. But I've always wondered if the Civil War Jenks, got sporterized?

I've been playing at building a replica, but thought a post war version might just add an extra twist.. Oh and it's only about number 87 on a growing list of
"I wanna build that!!"

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[smoothy]

I had a Prussian percussion musket at one time in about 75 caliber smoothbore. It was cut back to where it only had 2 barrel bands out of 3 left. It had a slanted crown on the lock with FW underneath it for Frederick Wilhelm, King of Prussia. It might have been acquired during the Civil War when arms were in short supply for all the soldiers on both sides. I read somewhere that the northern troops that received this type of musket would have called them "watermellon throwers". I'm trying to remember the number stamped on the major parts, I think it was 1842. I imagine after military use somebody acquired it and used it as a shotgun.

[Clark Badgett]

I had a Prussian percussion musket at one time in about 75 caliber smoothbore. It was cut back to where it only had 2 barrel bands out of 3 left. It had a slanted crown on the lock with FW underneath it for Frederick Wilhelm, King of Prussia. It might have been acquired during the Civil War when arms were in short supply for all the soldiers on both sides. I read somewhere that the northern troops that received this type of musket would have called them "watermellon throwers". I'm trying to remember the number stamped on the major parts, I think it was 1842. I imagine after military use somebody acquired it and used it as a shotgun.

They called them "Pumpkin slingers"

[Clowdis]

Then there was Gemmer who "Hawkenized" everything including trapdoors and Sharps. Sort of a retro sporterizing kind of thing I guess.

[Clark Badgett]

Yulzari, your shotgun is one of the better looking modifications I've seen. Yours is very nice looking. What is the bore size?

[Tim Crosby]

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=48893.0

[yulzari]

Yulzari, your shotgun is one of the better looking modifications I've seen. Yours is very nice looking. What is the bore size?

Clark B. It is 0,733" Lovell's Reduced Bore to take standard service musket cartridges. Troops like artillery and sappers would not expect to have to fire the same volume of fire as infantry so they did not need the same huge windage to allow for accumulated continued fouling with over 60 rounds. This one has been well loved and worked on by it's impecunious civilian 19th century owner. It makes it a true 12 bore as opposed to the infantry muskets which were 11 or 10 bore.  It has been suggested that it was a sparrow gun, which was a working man's version of a pigeon gun. The stock is varnished which I think is original to the civilian use and protects the assorted military stamps which remain on the stock. The chequering is unevenly, but carefully, hand cut and there is no provision for a loading rod. The work of a practical English 'Bubba", as you would say, but as a working tool which has been well maintained in his hands.

[greywuuf]

Clowdis ....  Know of any where I might see some of these hawkenised pieces ?......that actually sounds right up my alley.

[Clark Badgett]

Clowdis ....  Know of any where I might see some of these hawkenised pieces ?......that actually sounds right up my alley.

Hanson's "The Plains Rifle" has 2-3 shown in it. Google J.P. Gemmer and you will see examples (mostly reproductions) of his work.

[Szabla]

I have an 1816 Harpers Ferry musket with an 1823 dated lock that, as much as I can tell, was first arsenal converted to percussion in the 1850s, rifled at the same time, and then later cut down.  About a foot was cut off the barrel.  The stock was cut back to the middle band.  It's heavily pitted and most of the rifling is gone from the barrel, but the grooves are still a bit visible.  The mainspring is broken but both parts are there.  I'm new to posting this board and I'll try to find a way to post a photo.

The musket has been in the family since the 1940s when it was given to my dad by some friend he was helping to move.  The musket was under a front porch in Chicago.  Dad carried it home on the CTA. Like to try that today!   

I've been following ALR for quite some time and have been learning from all of you.  It's nice to finally be able to contribute.

Tim