Skatter Gun

[Daryl]

You might try a thicker patch, 535s and ditch the bore butter. Saturate the patches and smooth the crown. Might be worth a try.

exactly!

[Scota4570]

I was thinking about this and had an idea.  My theory is that the middle of the groove is to deep to get patch compression. 

An old Lyman black power book showed a picture of the ball with patch impressions on the lands and grooves and being a "correct" combination. 

We now have CO2 dischargers.  Has anyone tried loading different combinations and using the discharger to eject the ball and patch in to a rag cushion and then examine the ball for sufficient patch compression?   

[Daryl]

The easiest way to see this, is to use a strip of the material, lube the middle of the strip and put a ball into the muzzle, perhaps 1/8" to 1/4" down, gather up the 'ends and pull it
back out then examine the ball. I've done this with EVERY rifle I have ever owned.
Not sure where I learned this, might have been from "old friend, now gone, Lester H. Hawkes" in 1973.
That Lyman picture: This is what I strive for and accept nothing less.

[Scota4570]

That is a good idea. 

Can "correct" be achieved with a practical-loadable combination in a deep round groove barrel?

[Mule Brain]

I have been doing that strip test on my own for years. I just thought of it on my own, and will do it with the new material I have.
I haven't been able to hit the range again to do some testing, but will report when I can.

Thanks for all the input gentleman

Here is the business end of the rifle in question 

 

[Daryl]

About your muzzle - I see a machine cut crown. I like to smooth these a bit, using the end of my thumb and wet/dry paper or emery cloth in 320 grit.
What this does, is round the corners that are left by the cutter, which allows more snug loads to be used without cutting the patch.
Here are a few examples.
The second and third are machine cut, with a cutting tool made and designed by Dave Crysali of this site.
 






Now, these I posted as this one looks like yours, Mule Brain, and the next one is after the thumb treatment.








 This is Ryan's muzzle crown job.

[Scota4570]

[/quote]

That is regular square bottom rifling. 

[Daryl]

Yes, and it is sharp edged due to the machine cut crown.

[alacran]

I was thinking about this and had an idea.  My theory is that the middle of the groove is to deep to get patch compression. 

An old Lyman black power book showed a picture of the ball with patch impressions on the lands and grooves and being a "correct" combination. 

We now have CO2 dischargers.  Has anyone tried loading different combinations and using the discharger to eject the ball and patch in to a rag cushion and then examine the ball for sufficient patch compression?

My latest flintlock pistol build was  really hard to start a .440 ball . I had cut the muzzle of the barrel. and had it quite square. When I made my crown I tried to emulated what was on the original muzzle. I was using JO Anns cotton drill #40 with bear lube.
When I shot it the patches were awful.
When I went back to my shop after cleaning it, I loaded without powder.  I marked the ramrod to seat the ball 1/2 inch above the breech.  Got may discharger and clamped the barrel in my vise, and let it rip into a cardbox  with some Wall Mart bags inside.  I found that the patching was cut at the edges of the lands.
I got a 5/8 inch stone burr and went at it with slow speed with my drill. Did a little bit and reshot it . Checked the patching and it was better. Repeated this till there was no cutting of the patches. Then I smoothed it out with the patented Daryl Thumb method down to 320 grit.
Placed barrel back in pistol. Placed on my loading stand and reloaded it again without powder. The ball loaded much easier ad I shot it into he box and the patch looked great.
Verified the experiment at the range with powder . The patches looked great and the accuracy ws also great. Saved me a lot of time.
I would do it again on a rifle if I have the need.

[Mule Brain]

Thanks for all the info in regards to that muzzle. Smoothing out those sharp edges makes sense to me.

[hanshi]

Yes it does make a huge difference; all mine received that treatment.

[Scota4570]

Yes, and it is sharp edged due to the machine cut crown.

OP said the rifling was the round bottom grooves.  I based my speculation on that.  The barrel is regular conventional rifling, which is better IMHO. 

And yes, a gradual smooth crown does load better.  Polish the crown for sure.

[Scota4570]

For those who have access to a lathe crowing is precise and quick.  Dial in the bore using a 4-jaw chuck.  Use a contoured cutter as shown below to make whatever degree of taper and rounding you want.