P.C.Angstadt...any biographical information ?

[DaveM]

I guess if that is signed GA I am sold! And Eric you are correct there was one by the same maker posted a couple of months ago.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Can you find the post?  I don't remember how I got the photos I have, only who had the rifle.  I may have gotten them directly or I may have lifted them from here.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Oops, found it.  Rifle in first post:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76143.msg758851#msg758851

That clearly (to my eye) is the same guy, so if the Poulin rifle is Gideon, this one (link above) sure seems to be also.

[DaveM]

I agree! There aas a pistol somewhere online made by him also, a couple months ago.

[Eric Kettenburg]

The more I look at this Poulin rifle:  I find it practically impossible to NOT see it as an Angstadt rifle.  It's 19th century.  It has a lot of inlays held on with tiny iron tacks, which is practically an 'up the river' calling card.  And we have a GA on lock, and a G * (is there more on barrel? picture is oddly cut off) on barrel.  I think I'd accept this as Gideon, probably one of his earlier working pieces.  And the other piece that was posted here last year - hard not to see it as the same maker, and probably about the same period whenever that may be.

IF these two pieces are Gideon, then a number of questions are raised because pieces attributed to him are all over the map.  Either a lot of the attributions are wrong, or he was dramatically changing his style and was borderline schizophrenic.  I find the former to be more believable, especially given the propensity of all of us to frequently speculate upon unsigned works and want very much to put names on pieces that are unsigned.

[DaveM]

Check out the Gideon pistol (unsigned) on the aaawt website.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I went through their site and don't see anything?

[DaveM]

I am away and not at my computer but gt this photo using my iphone. They refer to it as a southeastern pa flintlock pistol.

[DaveM]

[Eric Kettenburg]

Ok, found it, now that I can see the added pics of the sideplate side, same weird sideplates.  Very intersting. 

[DaveM]

Having a moment to reflect on the poulin rifle, wow what a work of art! I think it is exciting to finally connect the dots on what Gideon Angstadt guns looked like. And he seems to have been quite gifted as an artist also. It would be interesting to see this signed lock.

There are a handful of rifles by Adam, his son Joseph, and now Joseph’s son Gideon - that to me are really unique and incredible works of folk art. To me the Neff rifle is a bit over-the-top; Peter Angstadt’s rifles are neat but to me a bit crude; Abraham Angstadt rifles are fine but a bit odd - there is something about the ones by Adam (suspected), and his son Joseph and Gideon that seem like they reach another level of abstract art. Does any one else feel this way? Somehow they just work visually despite not being as refined in workmanship as other makers.

[DaveM]

Noel, sorry I missed your question. I never found reference to a gunsmith named George Angstadt.

[Buck]

Eric,

I agree in review of the 4 rifles that they are made by the same hand. I’d like to see the actual signature / initials and compare the A to those of Adam, Peter, Abraham, and Peter (Abrahams Son). That would be the final sell for me. You won’t get an argument out of me that these are Angstadt rifles but attributing it to Gideon without the observation of the signature keeps me on the fence.

Dave - great find. I’ll review my research in the AM for a George. If there’s no George, and we can get a visual on the signature then I can confidently call it a Gideon along with the other 3.

Noel

[eastwind]

I know this thread didn't start with Gideon, but lacking a full signature and only initials doesn't convince me the subject rifle is also a Gideon. Attached are the two attributed Gideons I owned - both have been attributed to Gideon over many years and with many owners. The less decorated one is probably the same one Buck and Ron Gable owned as I bought it from Gable many years ago at KRA, Carlisle. It may also be the same one in the other pic by Simens.
  The fancier one is the one I owned for years and is my Berks book. It was bought by a guy who specialized on Gideon's upper Susquehanna guns and he was absolutely convinced these are by Gideon, and until something better like a full signed rifle comes up - I do too.
  And I don't think the subject rifle above is similar enough to attribute it to the two rifles I show here (attributed to Gideon). The initials could also be George Avery, a Hamburg, Berks gunsmith about the same period. Never seen one of Avery's but Hamburg is Simon Miller territory, the earlier gunsmith, and not far from Upper Susquehanna/Schuylkill County.
Secondly, I don't see enough similarity to the two attributed Gideon's to the subject's patchbox and I see no carving of any kind on the 2 above Gideons. And I don't see any of those quirky regional engraved designs Stophel Long and Carl and Jacob George put on their brass - kind of a wave on the center of their box lids like this better Gideon has.

Just my thought, but I have to defer from calling the subject rifle a work of the other two rifles Gideon Angstadt or not - it must be some other GA, than the two shown here. we best wait for more solid info on Gideon before calling this one of his, particularly since we aren't positive about Gideon's work. In short, since none of them have positive Gideon Angstadt identifiers, maybe none are.
Patrick Hornberger