Rifle Barrel Liner

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

I was able to get this beautiful twist iron Jaeger barrel on E-Bay.  When I received it the bore was really rotten, like an inside out corn cob.  It made the decision to install a liner easy.  I bought the liner from TJ's and installed it with epoxy.  The rest of the gun is really hand made 18th c style with the exception of the trigger guard and the ramrod pipes which are store - bought.  The rifle shoots very well, almost touching at 25 yards.  Note the beautiful pattern in the twist iron and the original copper pin front sight.  This is the only gunlock that I have made with the fly/detent.  But that little job is for another story (I don't like them unless somebody else makes them).  The breech plug and the rear sight on the barrel are newly made from wrought iron as these were missing on the original barrel.  Does anyone want this gun?

Jim Everett

[b bogart]

Heck yes I do Jim, but I can't afford it. It is a very nice looking rifle. Unique! Thanks for offering tho!

[Trkdriver99]

Ditto what He said. I would really love something like that, but I have a new Andy Thomas rifle coming so I can't afford 2 new guns.

Ronnie

[Acer Saccharum]

Does anyone want this gun?

Jim, if you're serious about selling this, it should be moved to the 'for sale' section, with a price posted.

Tom

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

I had hoped that this thread would be for a discussion of the who what why when where of installing a liner in an old barrel, not really for selling a gun.

This is the first rifled liner I have used in a muzzle loading barrel.  I have several lined cartridge barrel guns, you know those silly things that load from the back.  Also I have done several smoothbore muzzle loading barrel liners, one is an interesting story....

The local historical site, Fort Ligonier, had a short land pattern musket that they used daily to show visitors the bang & smoke.  Needless to say it was not cleaned well and even developed several tiny holes completely through the barrel near the muzzle.  Just imagine cleaning your gun with hot water only to see little spurts coming out the side!  The optimistic curator asked me if it could be repaired.  Huh? are you kidding?  I did it quite easily by lining the bore with a section of 3/4 inch stainless steel tubing.  I worked great and it is still in service there - and still not being cleaned.

Since then I have built a German style smooth bore with a purposely lined barrel - stainless of course, but don't tell anybody - it really is cheating.  Maybe later I will get some photos of this one.

Jim Everett

[James Wilson Everett]

Hey,  This is cheating!!  Yes, I know, but it might be interesting anyway.  This is a German style fowler that I put together using store-bought parts, with the exception of the barrel.  This barrel is an octagon to round, 38.2 long, 1.040 breech, 0.762 muzzle.  The cheating is that it is lined with stainess steel (don't tell anybody now).  Actually it is lined with Inconel 600, but the result is the same.  I call it the "treker's delight" since you don't have the worry about the bore corrosion.  The bore is 0.613 and the whole gun weight is 6.5 pounds.  I put a chamfer at the muzzle just at the joint between the stainless liner and the steel outer barrel, you really do not notice it unless someone tells you it is there.  I put together this gun using modern electric tools, so it really not "hand made", at least the way I use that term.  The hardest part was in making the outer barrel muzzle section so very thin, but I did use a lathe to do it, sorry to the purists here.  Anybody want this cheater?

Jim Everett

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

This comment is in response to "Kutter" who was asking about rifling a damascus barrel in the thread "making a cutter for rifling".  You can see in this post where the really old twist iron barrel was lined using a TJ liner.  The shooting result was very good although I use a modest powder charge out of respect for the original barrel.  If memory serves a 60g charge in a 0.51 caliber bore.  I used 18th c reamers and armory reamers to open the bore for the liner, you can see the ring of the edge of the liner at the muzzle.  If you use modern tools you can minimize this down to nearly invisible.  Drilling from the breech with the proper size bit for the liner O.D. you stop the cut just slightly short of drilling the bore full depth.  This leaves a very tiny "knife edge" at the muzzle at the angle of the drill cutting edge.  You stop the drill about 2 hairs short or about a half fingernail short of full depth (great technical terminology here).  Epoxy and insert the liner from the breech end forcing it past the "knife edge", then you really have a difficult time seeing any indication at all that the barrel is lined.

Jim Everett

[Hudnut]

Thanks for this interesting thread.
Here is how I installed liner in a 12 bore shotgun, which was pitted beyond anything I would shoot.
I used a standard 3/4" chucking reamer.  Drilled a piece of brass rod, slipped it onto the shank up toward the flutes and soldered it in place.  Put it in the lathe and turned it to bore diameter, to make a fitted pilot. Turned down the end of the shank and fitted a sleeve into which the extension rod was fitted.  Soldered this assembly together.  Using a variable speed electric drill, started pulling the reamer through from the muzzle - couldn't start at the breech, the reamer would have cut the tops off the threads.  Lubed, reamed, cleaned over and over until the reamer just reached the threads.  Even at .750, there were still some pits.
Used 4130 Cr-Mo seamless aircraft tube to make the liner, .750 OD, just over .650 ID.  Machined the liner to match the nose of the breechplug.  Made sure I could slide the tube into the reamed bore.  Degreased everything, plugged the liner, applied epoxy (IIRC, JB Weld) to the liner and the bore, pushed the liner into place, a bit too far.  Cleaned all epoxy from the breech area, removed the plug from the tube.  Screwed the plug in, forcing the liner foreward a bit - I wanted the liner hard against the face of the breech plug.  Plug was waxed.  After the epoxy was cured, I turned the liner flush with the muzzle.
Proofed the barrel.
There is enough meat in the liner that it could be jug choked.
If I were doing this over, I would have used a bit thinner liner, just to keep the barrel a bit lighter.

Used the same rig to ream out another pitted 12 bore, although I had to adjust the diameter of the brass pilot.  This one reamed smooth, all pits gone, nice and smooth.  I will still line it though, the walls are a little on the thin side.  Going to use thinner liner stock on this one.

First gun was a respectable Birmingham gun in nice condition externally; second is rougher.  Needs more restoration in addition to the bore.  But both would have been wallhangers without sleeving.

Cr-Mo tubing can be obtained from .aircraftspruce.com or .ca depending on where you live.  Cost is very reasonable.

Who is TJ, maker of rifled liners?

Here are shots of the installed liner, and the gun.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys & Hudnut,

Thanks for the detailed information about lining the barrel.  I was very interested in how you put the pilot on the reamer.  I guess that this would work only where the reamer shank is significantly smaller in diameter than the flutes.  If you can get some photos of the tool setup, I would be interested in seeing them.  Also, must there be any type of rear edge modification to the reamer flutes as you were pulling the tool rather than pushing the tool?  I am referring to that small 45 degree bevel at the nose of a chucking reamer, did you attempt to put that at the rear?

T.J.'s  3652 Neltner Road, Alexandria, KY 41001, (859) 635-5560, Mike Sayers, President.  These guys make a large selection of hammer forged liners for modern calibers from 0.17 to 0.50, about 40 different ones.  For muzzle loaders they make a 0.460 bore/0.476 groove, 1-48, 5/8 OD and a 0.510 bore/0.532 groove, 1-48, 11/16 OD.  I used the 0.510 liner and was very pleased with the result as seen in the photos above.  T.J.'s sells these for $3.75 per inch.  I believe that Track of the Wolf sells these also, but at a higher price.  Obviously the price of the liner will exceed the price of a new barrel, so it only makes sense to line only the most valuable barrels, line the really cool twist iron barrel, above.

Jim Everett

[Hudnut]

I will take photos of the reamer later today when I go to the shop.  I was pleasantly surprised that the reamer would cut "backwards", and that I was able to go from 12ga. to .750 in one step.
I've lined breechloaders by using a drill with a pilot, pushing the tool into the bore.  It seems almost easier to use a pull setup.  You are not trying to keep a long drill bit from oscillating, vibrating.
Experimented with mounting the barrel through the lathe spindle, and pulling the tool with the carriage, but this didn't seem to be any easier than just using a hand held variable speed electric drill.

Leaning in the corner of the shop is a French M1717 barrel that I acquired many years ago.  It had been cut.  I "stretched" back then.  Seeing the lined barrel in your jaeger reminded me about it.  It would be a good candidate for sleeving to make it into a shooter.  I have a couple of early locks I made that I could use - a large doglock flintlock, and a late style matchlock.  This would be a good barrel for a 1690 - 1720 styled musket, either match or flint.

[Bob Roller]

Bill Large had a reamer system,power driven that was a reverse pull.As long as the object being reamed is turning into the flutes of the reame,it will work fine. Bill's setup also carried
cutting oil thru the hollow shank pulling the reamer and the reameres were usually Govt.surplus with five flutes and then custom ground to the needed outside dimensions. I used to grind these when I worked for a cutter grinder service here locally but they were not for Bill,he did his own.

Bob Roller

[Jim Kibler]

Jim,

Just wanted to say that I like the overall style of the cheek carving on your Germanic fowling piece.  A nice design that fills up the space well and has appeal.

Jim

[Daryl]

Great thread- thanks.  Taylor and I lined a little ML English gun he came across, using a turned down Bauska 48" twist .36 cal. barrel and probably used Acra-Glass (1980's).  It's very accurate and acounted for a LOT of snowshoe hares over the years.  Pretty little thing. He might have some pictures - I don't.

[Hudnut]

I should have checked my reamer before my post.  Didn't use a separate pilot and joining sleeve.  The pilot is the sleeve.  A sleeve could be installed closer to the reamer if needed.

The other reamer is a standard 1/2".  I have used it to open out short barrels for installation of 1/2" diameter liners.  It is push feed.

[James Wilson Everett]

Hudnut,

Now you've done it!  Looking at the photo of the reamer I smacked myself in the forehead and yelled "Why didn't I think of that?".  A very simple solution, thanks so much for the information.  Not to mention the bruise on my forehead.

Jim Everett