Filling and re drilling wood screw holes

[PPatch]

A quick question;

I got the angle wrong on a butt plate screw so decided to fill the hole with an oak dowel and do it right. It failed when I drilled the pilot hole and screwed in the #10 wood screw, wood fiber let loose and the screw just spun in the socket. No, I didn't apply too much twist or go beyond what I thought would be just firm. What I believe happened was the dowel being oak and screwing into the end grain was too much for it. In any case the dowel LOOKS like oak but who knows these days.

As far as I know my options are:

-Find or make a dowel from maple, and if I make it to cut it out of side running grain.

-Use some space age filler and drill and self tap the screw in.

But

What do you fellows do - I know you've got lots'o tricks up your sleeves... ideas?

Thank you.

dp

 

[mountainman70]

Howdie Dave,one thought comes to my feeble brain right now-remember,my years in good ol Georgia slowed me down a mite,good thing,too-is this,I have similar prob when using a close to size plug.I have started using next size up-say,3/8 dowel.When the glue dries,'member,we gotta be patient y'all-then I pilot drill,and wax or soap the screw down real good,then twist that skudder inter the hole.Most time this does the trick.I have spent the holiday weekend re working a buncha boobooos,mostly metal,plugging and redrilling/threadind,Best regards,Dave up here

[smallpatch]

I've used both maple and hickory many times. Just glue in, let dry, and pilot drill for new screw. They'll tighten up like an anchor. It helps to wax or soap the screw for lube.

[bob in the woods]

I have had "angle" trouble a couple of times...especially on fowling gun butt plates.  One 1/2 in diam hickory ramrod has been reserved for just these kind of issues, and works perfectly.  The screws are anchored securely in the dowel plug.
Waxing the screw is standard practice for me.   Your trouble was in the "mystery wood " used, not in the method.

[Acer Saccharum]

I once had to plug a buttplate hole TWICE for drilling the hole at the wrong angle. Third time, I got it.

Drill a clean, straight hole, and turn a plug to fit. Use the same wood, same grain orientation, and the plug will stay put. A different wood may expand/contract differently. Glue with Titebond, or other wood glue.

[PPatch]

Thanks guys. You jogged my failing memory, I have a 3/8's hickory stub somewhere in the shop long enough to do the job. And yes, I always use Titebond and wax the screws.

This build I'm on I'm calling the Screw Gun - screws have given me fits the whole time. Its almost finished though, should be a pretty little gunne.

Dave

[E.vonAschwege]

I just had this problem on a walnut southern mountain stock.  What I've done typically is drill out the hole slightly, then make a square peg to fill it.  Drive the peg in with a touch of glue, and the peg won't spin on you.  The problem with that method anywhere other than the buttplate is that you have end grain of the peg mixing with cross grain of the rest of the stock, and the drill can wander as you re-drill the hole.  That's where Acer's method works better matching the grain orientation.
-Eric

[Jerry V Lape]

I have never had a wood glued (Titebond) plug move.  One thing you might want to check is your reference chart for proper size pilot hole for your screw size.  And the soap or beeswax as mentioned earlier is good on all wood screws.  I keep a chunk of bees wax wrapped in plastic next to my tools.  I hate to admit how much experience I have in this fix.  Woodcraft has dowels ready made in walnut, maple, birch, oak and several other woods.  I keep a couple sizes of maple and walnut dowel around. 

[Acer Saccharum]

For large screws, it's sometimes really difficult to get them to start properly. Wax is a big help.

You can make a tap by taking an extra screw and brazing it to a shank, or turning it if you have a lathe. The long handle helps you tap the threads straight. This screw was an odd one, but I wanted to use it because of the big head.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I usually keep about 3 sizes of hardware store dowels (Birch I think) on hand for fixing miss drilled holes. They are slightly oversize from the drill/screw size so I'm not drilling in the glue joint. Just let the joint dry well, overnight is best and it will hold.

I like to use a little smaller pilot drill for end grain than for side grain.

I like the idea of making a plug to match the grain and orientation of the grain, but other than whittling a plug, don't have a way to do it.

[bob in the woods]

I forgot to mention that just lately I have started to use a gimlet [ learned from Mark Silver's DVD ] and it really helps in getting the angles correct.

[PPatch]

Some great ideas in here fellows - Thanks a million.

dp

[PPatch]

Did the repair this morning. Made a Maple plug and titebond'd it in with the grain running parallel to the stock. Tomorrow I'll redrill for the screw.

This time I'll put it on the drill press...

dp

[PIKELAKE]

This post tells me that I'm not the only one who miss-drills. I can offer nothing that hasn't been mentioned other that I cut little furrows in the plug. It holds a little more glue and is rock solid when dry. I am not sure that I understand how a gimlet helps get the hole angle right. It has been mentioned before and I don't get it. It took me two tries on the butt plate for the fowler I'm working on to get that angle perfect. I seem to think that two pair of eyes would make drilling more precise. 

[John Archer]

Just run the gimlet in a couple of turns until it takes hold. Then you can step back and check the angles...adjust until it's correct and go in a few more turns. Check again, adjust if necessary, and go to full depth.

John.

[chubby]

You could also go to the outside edge of your plug and drill a 1/16th or 3/32 size hole depending on dia. of your plug and drill a hole between both pcs. and tap in a pin along with the glue the plug will not spin while putting in screw    Chubby!

[PIKELAKE]

Mr. Archer, I now understand the logical use of a gimlet. I previously tried to line up my cordless and missed the mark usually. Such a simple explanation. Thanks again,.......JZ

[Mark Elliott]

Like a crazy man,  I keep trying to plug screw holes with store bought dowels.    The fact is that it rarely works right.    The problem is that the plug you use must be the same hardness with the grain in the same direction as the wood around it.   Otherwise,  the drill bit or screw will just follow the path of least resistance, ie.  the softest wood,  usually the plug.    The best way,  and usually the hardest way,  to fix a hole the wrong size, in the wrong place, or at the wrong angle, is to cut out a rectangular section of wood around the hole and fit it with a plug of the same wood in the same orientation.     The same thing goes for splits and cracks.   I am not saying I always use this technique, but it is the one I SHOULD use.     Often,  I will waste more time trying to fix something the wrong way than it would have taken to fix it right the first time.  I guess that just proves that I am human.  

[B Shipman]

I do this at least once with some screw large or small  on about every rifle I've built.

I fill the hole with epoxy and drive in round cocktail toothpicks. I mean hammer them in. A couple or many. And redrill. No problems. Except the one I had in the first place.

[Bill of the 45th]

Quote: This screw was an odd one, but I wanted to use it because of the big head.

Acer, Yours with the horns or the screw? "odd one" or "big head"

Bill