Author Topic: Expanding use of the term "Moravian" - what does it / should it mean?  (Read 12324 times)

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Expanding use of the term "Moravian" - what does it / should it mean?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2015, 01:57:49 AM »
Robby, I liked that you were specific in your references to originals that inspired that build.  The responses there about your use of the term "Moravian" indicate that many expect to see a step-wristed early rifle.  Since yours was Albrecht-inspired with patchbox carving like the Marshall rifle and associated Oerter wire inlay work, as well as the cheek carving, it certainly was inspired by Moravian gunmakers.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Expanding use of the term "Moravian" - what does it / should it mean?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2015, 02:45:25 AM »
Bob, Thank you for your contribution to Moravian Gun Makers of the American Revolution.

I would like to add that I enjoyed the Moravian history presented in Moravian Gun Makers of the American Revolution almost as much as the fine study and pictures of the dozen or so rifles presented. From a builders perspective it provided a resource that allowed many of us to build more accurate respresentations of this style of gun. I would also add that the publishing of pictures of the Oerter " Griffon" rifle excited interest in the Moravian builders.

To me the book really contains several styles of guns, Early Lancaster ( Graeff, Dickert, maybe the Albrecht Lititz gun ), Christian's Spring ( Edward Marshall, Oerter, Dog and Lion Lamb early rifles ) and the William Antes rifles.

What I typically see presented as Moravian rifles built today are the Christian's Spring styled rifles. Given that other than the Oerter rifles the others mentioned above are attributions, calling them Christian's Spring styled guns makes more sense to me.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 02:59:10 AM by Tom Currie »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Expanding use of the term "Moravian" - what does it / should it mean?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2015, 07:03:02 AM »
Bob, Thank you for your contribution to Moravian Gun Makers of the American Revolution.

I would like to add that I enjoyed the Moravian history presented in Moravian Gun Makers of the American Revolution almost as much as the fine study and pictures of the dozen or so rifles presented. From a builders perspective it provided a resource that allowed many of us to build more accurate respresentations of this style of gun. I would also add that the publishing of pictures of the Oerter " Griffon" rifle excited interest in the Moravian builders.

To me the book really contains several styles of guns, Early Lancaster ( Graeff, Dickert, maybe the Albrecht Lititz gun ), Christian's Spring ( Edward Marshall, Oerter, Dog and Lion Lamb early rifles ) and the William Antes rifles.

What I typically see presented as Moravian rifles built today are the Christian's Spring styled rifles. Given that other than the Oerter rifles the others mentioned above are attributions, calling them Christian's Spring styled guns makes more sense to me.


I agree that the text of this volume was very interesting and enlightening. And I love the guns too of course.

I just wish it had come out 10 years earlier. It would have saved me some supposition ::)
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline blienemann

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Re: Expanding use of the term "Moravian" - what does it / should it mean?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2015, 08:33:09 AM »
I’m just thinking aloud, don’t own any term and don’t mean to judge / criticize in any way.  It is interesting that a book intended to show the wide variety of daily life and style / details of rifles within that umbrella of Moravian connection may result in lumping them all together.   

 “Christian’s Spring” (and Bethlehem) from George Shumway’s book was descriptive, as that was one location.  Still the men and boys and their work changed over 40 years – so a date range is helpful. 

Dickert and others at Lancaster worked with a different profile and details.  “Early Lancaster” – maybe through Rev War, and “late Lancaster” – thousands of treaty and fur trade rifles after 1820 – those terms are helpful, as we know the location and can guess at a range of years.  Might be room for “mid or Golden Age Lancaster” as well to cover the classic Isaac Haines, Henry Albright, Schweitzer, et al.  Dickert made them all over 60 years, so good to put a date range with a Dickert rifle.

Robby’s nice rifle described as early Lancaster, a good early lock, lots of Dickert with Albrecht patchbox and other influences is helpful, ties it to a place and time.     

“Moravian” may be a fad, and we tend to follow what’s in print – photos of fine old rifles in books and articles, contemporary copies of them by Jud, Jack, Mark, Allen and others.  I do not think this term should be limited to a “C’s Spring, stepped wrist and stout” rifle.  But history and language are written every day.