Who sells barrel liners for muzzel loaders?

[Rolf]

Been offerd damascus blanks suitable for pistol barrels. Would like to try to make a smooth bore  50 caliber barrel for an english dueling pistol.
Would like to line the barrel as a saftey precaution.  Where can I buy suitable liners?

Best regards
Rolf

[James Wilson Everett]

Rolf,

For rifled liners:
 
T.J.'s  3652 Neltner Road, Alexandria, KY 41001, (859) 635-5560, Mike Sayers, President.  These guys make a large selection of hammer forged liners for modern calibers from 0.17 to 0.50, about 40 different ones.  For muzzle loaders they make a 0.460 bore/0.476 groove, 1-48, 5/8 OD and a 0.510 bore/0.532 groove, 1-48, 11/16 OD.

Check out the topic on barrel liners:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=19391.msg183213#msg183213

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31614.msg303333#msg303333

For a smoothbore, you can just use seamless tubing, available lots of places.  I have even used stainless steel tubing for a liner, but don't tell anyone!

Jim

Also,

[smart dog]

Rolf,
Contact Hugh Toenjes (hjt65@hotmail.com) for advice on doing that. 

dave

[Acer Saccharum]

Bob Hoyt makes RIFLED liners. 717 642 6696 call around 8 am Eastern time. Later in the day, he's on machinery and doesn't answer the phone.

Bob Hoyt
700 Fairfield Station Rd.
Fairfield, PA 17320

They could be mailed as steel tubes, or raw material.

[jerrywh]

 Rolf.
   I seem to remember you have a lathe.  Why don't you make your own liner? 

[Rolf]

Thank you all for your replies. I will follow up on all the tips.
Jerry, I have a small emco 8 compact lathe and I a complete novice at machining.  Not sure I can do a thin walled tube with uniform thickness.
But, I'd like to try. I have to find a  "follow steady rest" for my lath. What typ of tubing would you recommend for a liner?

Best regards
Rolf

[James Wilson Everett]

Rolf,

Turning a thin walled tube on a lathe can be a serious challenge.  Just try seamless tubing, usually found at any good hardware store,  hardware supply company, or automobile parts store.  Usually less than $10 US for a 3 foot piece.  This stuff will have an exact O.D. measurement, either English inches or metric mm.  The I.D. will vary depending on the wall thickness you select.  In the example above the tubing was 0.500 inch O.D. by 0.049 inch wall giving a bore of 0.402 inch.  If you wish to rifle the tube bore after installation of the tube, I recommend that you do not use annealed tubing, use hard tubing as it is better behaved for cutting the rifle grooves.

Jim

[Rolf]

This summer my family and me are going on a 2 week vacation in England. 6th july I'll be visiting/shoping  at Peter Dyson & son.
These are the blanks I'm thinking of buying  http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/ORIGINAL_DAMASCUS_BARRELS.html

I would like to use them for a pair of smooth bore english dueling pistols (I have a pair wogden lockkits from Blackley). I want to machine the barrels octangona with a small swamp.  Dyson says the blanks are usally used without liners, but I 'd like to play it safe. Plain seamless steel tubing seems to be regarded by most ALR members as unsafe for making barrrels. Is it safe for barrel liners?

Best regards
Rolf

[jerrywh]

 Rolf.
       I have made three or four barrels out of the same Damascus bars from Peter Dyson.
 There is not much need for a steady rest on a pistol barrel because it is so short. If I were you I would line it before I did the outside to final dimension. I would just turn the outside to get it true. The pistol barrels they offer are advertised as in the as forged condition and are .950 in diameter. That is not big enough in diameter in  my opinion. It depends on how much you have to take off to get them trued up. I always bought the large rifle blanks. I lined one for a pistol and used 12L14 but I like 1137 better. You will take off approximately .070" or about 1.75 mm  in the diameter in order to make it octagon at the breech. My finished barrels are about .915 across the flats at the breech. For the liner you can install a thicker tube and Loctite it in , then drill it out to a larger bore and ream it. That will solve the problem of turning a thin tube. Pistols like that only used about 20grains of powder so I proofed mine at 40 grains. Actually I proofed one with 150 grains of fffg Goex twice and it showed no signs of failure.  If I can be any help to you send me an email or a private message.
  I am engraving one of those rifle barrel soon now.

[Acer Saccharum]

These were originally damascus blanks for shotgun barrels. To echo Jerry, plenty strong enough as is, unless you want to reduce the bore size with a liner.

[Rolf]

Rolf.
       I have made three or four barrels out of the same Damascus bars from Peter Dyson.
 There is not much need for a steady rest on a pistol barrel because it is so short. If I were you I would line it before I did the outside to final dimension. I would just turn the outside to get it true. The pistol barrels they offer are advertised as in the as forged condition and are .950 in diameter. That is not big enough in diameter in  my opinion. It depends on how much you have to take off to get them trued up. I always bought the large rifle blanks. I lined one for a pistol and used 12L14 but I like 1137 better. You will take off approximately .070" or about 1.75 mm  in the diameter in order to make it octagon at the breech. My finished barrels are about .915 across the flats at the breech. For the liner you can install a thicker tube and Loctite it in , then drill it out to a larger bore and ream it. That will solve the problem of turning a thin tube. Pistols like that only used about 20grains of powder so I proofed mine at 40 grains. Actually I proofed one with 150 grains of fffg Goex twice and it showed no signs of failure.  If I can be any help to you send me an email or a private message.
  I am engraving one of those rifle barrel soon now.

Jerry,
Which of the rifle blanks did you order from Dyson? Did you make any of the pistol barrels without liners?

Best regards
Rolf

[Swab]

I have not had the need to line any small arms barrels but working with cannons the standards for securing cannon liners is to use a west system epoxy.  I have a Damascus barrel I am thinking of lining to use and I figure if this method is good enough for the national park service and larger cannons it should be just dandy for a little pistol.

[jerrywh]

 Rolf.
   I ordered two of the biggest and longest Damascus barrel blanks they had.  I had other Damascus barrels besides those. Both of the ones I had from Dyson I had lined by Bobby Hoyt. I still have one of them. I did find that they will not clean up on the inside until the ID is at least .580" or 14.5 MM.  Neither one of the two Damascus blanks were straight enough to use for rifles without first being straightened. I had to straighten them with heat in the lathe before they could be contoured on the outside or bored out for a liner. I made a octagon  pistol barrel out of a piece of one of them and had to bore it to .580 before it cleaned up. Then I took it on out to about .750 and lined it with a  12L14 liner. to .50 caliber.     

[Rolf]

Rolf.
   I ordered two of the biggest and longest Damascus barrel blanks they had.  I had other Damascus barrels besides those. Both of the ones I had from Dyson I had lined by Bobby Hoyt. I still have one of them. I did find that they will not clean up on the inside until the ID is at least .580" or 14.5 MM.  Neither one of the two Damascus blanks were straight enough to use for rifles without first being straightened. I had to straighten them with heat in the lathe before they could be contoured on the outside or bored out for a liner. I made a octagon  pistol barrel out of a piece of one of them and had to bore it to .580 before it cleaned up. Then I took it on out to about .750 and lined it with a  12L14 liner. to .50 caliber.     

Thank you Jerry for your input. It's a big help.   Did you make the pistol barrel a straigth octagon or swamp? What were the finished dimensions?

Best regards
Rolf

[smart dog]

Rolf,
I have 2 octagon-round pistol barrels made by Hugh Toenjes, which have thin damascus shells and modern liners. The outer shells are from an original Belgian fowler from the early 1800s. Hugh turns and shapes the barrels and then installs a modern liner.  Mine are rifled with his custom rifling.  Despite the rifling, I am going to build a cased pair of early Twigg duelers using them, representing the period before English makers universally used swamped octagon barrels for dueling pistols. They will be my target pistols.  One disadvantage to the lined barrels is that the shell is too thin for dovetailed slots for the sights and barrel lugs in the round sections. Hugh sent me very small screws and taps to be used to drill and tap through the shell into the liner for the forward barrel lugs.  I will cut a very shallow trench for the front sights, which will have pins that fit into holes drilled into the liner. I will then use TIX very low temperature solder to anchor them.  Hugh does not recommend I use higher temp solder to mount the barrel lugs because it may melt the adhesive he uses to lock in the barrel liners. Hence, the little screws.  Your barrels may be different with respect to the thickness of the outer shell.

dave     

[jerrywh]

 My barrels were all swamped. I don't remember the exact dimensions. On thing about the sights is the rear sight on a lot of English and French pistols is actually on the rear tang or hook breech tang.  The dove tails are only about 1/4" or 6mm. Tix solder will work fine if you design the lug for it. I would just make a real thin flat base that was about 8mm long and solder them right on the bottom barrel flat.  Specs say it would take about 250 or 300 pounds of energy to pull them off. That's a lot when you think about it. I might even dove tail them. It depends on the final measurements of the barrel and liner.