Tang and peep sights

[MuskratMike]

The last year or so there have been several posts about the viability of a tang sight for those with ageing eyes. A few years ago I had a flintlock created by Lowell Haarer that came with traditional front and rear sights but also had a tang mounted fixed "ghost ring". It really helped me see my sights with my old eyes. I recently inherited a Hawken style rifle that the owner installed a Marbles adjustable peep sight from an old Savage 99 to replace the rear sight. it makes all the difference and probably will outshoot all my other rifles simply because I can see my sights and target. I know there are makers of replacement sights but that is not the question.
Here is my question and can we keep focused on this question and not the merits of them or not. During the flintlock era were there tang mounted sights found on rifles? Are there any photos of actual historic rifles with them? Were they adjustable of fixed? What period were they and if applicable what regions were they most seen? If anyone has an original with a tang sight can you add a photo of it?
Thanks in advance, and Merry Christmas to all of us,
"Muskrat" Mike

[smokinbuck]

Mike,
I have several original  half stock rifles that have rear peep sights on them. Will try to get a few pics up this weekend.

[terryk]

I just put a set of TC tang sights on a Woodsrunner.  Use a little longer tang screw, and the rear of the sight has a wood screw.  Pedersoli ghost sights also fit well.  TC sights are pretty hard to find. 
Tang/peep sights were used before flintlocks were invented.  The reason is peep sights are pretty nice to shoot with.  Functional and historic. 

[TDM]

Old eyes make them a necessity.

[J.M.Browning]

My eyes work better with my peep sight on my other rifles , The Kibler was assembled stock the sights buckhorn & front installed Ive had the rifle in the shooting hut on my 100 yard range my old eyes are with issues its not the rifle could not sight at all the front sight was not visible enough to shoot .

[Pukka Bundook]

Muskrat,
Not a Tang site, but tube, tunnel and a V in a tunnel have all been used since the very early 1500's.
No, they were not sticking them on Longrifles and 'Hawkens' back then, but the actual principle has been around and used for war . target and sport for 500 years.

Link to one such, for your general interest.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7542&highlight=tinderlock

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There are three S. Hawken rifles extant that have pistol grips and tang sights...I think they are all in the Jim Gordon collection. Below is a photo taken from his book, as well as pictures of one I made to replicate the idea.
I included a rear sight on the barrel, and wehn I finished the rifle, I sighted it in using the barrel mounted semi-buckhorn rear sight.  Then when I installed the tang sight, it was a simple matter to adjust it to align with the rear sight.  In function, it clarified the sight picture immensely.  The sight I copied was adjustable for both elevation and windage, but there was no calibration for repeatable long distance shooting.

The staff on the tang sight is threaded 1/4" x 80 tpi.  The windage screw is #6 x 40.

[Scota4570]

I made this from junk box sights.  The leather washer has a dab of rosin liquid flux  on it to prevent movement.  I tend to avoid modifying nice guns.  This scheme required no mods at all.  I move it from gun to gun for load testing. 

[Kurt]

I found this by searching. It was listed in "images" as a 1790 aperture sight. I had at one time found pictures of a tube-type aperture sight mounted on several flintlocks but I must not have saved them and can't find them now.

[smylee grouch]

Neat sight Scota4570. 

[WKevinD]

Peep sights, one from TOW another that was shop built.
Target work OK, hunting- no good for me,

Kevin

[Scota4570]

A peep sight set out on the barrel, vs. close to the eye gives up the peep sight advantage.  If the hole is close and small you gain something called the pinhole effect.  The small  hole acts as a lens.  The front sight and target will be in focus at the same time.    You eye also automatically centers the front sight.  The hole being tiny makes alignment errors unimportant. 

Early cameras use a pinhole instead of a glass lens. 

The 1903 Springfield  has a peep sight out on the barrel.  That part of the sight is absolutely useless to me.  I guess they were made for eagle eyed kids?  From the same era the 1917 peep sight was excellent. 

[EC121]

I installed one of those TOW sights in the usual place.  It was useless except in bright sunlight.  A tang sight will work, but the barrel sights need to have a larger aperture.  I ended up filing the peep off and cutting a notch to make it usable.

[Darkhorse]

Well, this is mine. I'd been thinking about a unobtrusive peep but had never taken any action. Then one day I could'nt hit a 25 yard target because the sights were so blurry. So I went home and made a couple.
Not fancy or artistic but it works. I have one on both my hunting rifles, actually been on them nearly 10 years with no problems.

[Eric Krewson]

I have posted this before; before I had cataract surgery, I couldn't shoot my rifles very well so I made this peep. I used metal that was too thick, the only way to adjust it was to heat it red hot and bend it, which I did countless times. Bending it to match the curvature of the tang was the hardest part.

I adjusted it so I could look through it and the front sight was perfectly centered and even with the top of the rear sight. My groups became a cloverleaf, something I hadn't been able to do in years.

Crude but it works.

[recurve]

my home made

Lowell Haager creation

 



more home made

[Bob Roller]

I made some folding sights like seen on long range muzzle loaders and BPCR with both windage and elevation and also a modified 17A
Lyman sight with windage and a level and Shaver inserts.
Bob Roller

[davec2]

Two older links that might be of help....

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=63728.msg639490#msg639490

And this one even covers the use of a telescopic sight on a flintlock during the American Revolution....

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=60660.msg607647#msg607647

I wouldn't worry too much about a peep / ghost ring being HC....


And my post as part of another thread on the topic.......

Some time back I was perusing photos of a large bore English rifle built by one of my favorite contemporary makers, Stephen Alexander.  This rifle had a rear "ghost ring" sight mounted very close to the breech which peaked my interest.  I made up some dummy sights and glued them to the barrel of a build I am working on and I love the sight picture through them.  In querying Stephen on the rear sight, he told me that this type of sight was frequently used on Turkish flint firearms and on some English and Continental ones as well. 





I did find a few peep sighted Turkish flintlock photos and, apparently, peep sights have been around since Roman days (museum pieces, crossbows from Roman to middle age Europe with peep sights),







Here is the English rifle I built with this type of rear sight on it........works great !