original style ramrod tips

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Original ramrod tips for wooden rammer Land Pattern muskets were made of sheet brass, rolled and soldered.  The tapered body required a smile shaped or rainbow shaped piece rolled into a conical shape.  The end was a simple disc.  All were soldered together and attached to the wood ramrod without the use of any cross pin.

How they were attached to the wood ramrod was to split the ramrod end, insert a small wood wedge into the split, slip the brass tip over the rod end, then smack the tip thereby driving the wedge deeper into the split, and enlarging the wood end so the tip did not come off.  Does this make sense?

Apparently this system did not work very well.  In the archaelogical work at Fort Ligonier in Westerm Pa. (1758-1765) there were found a great many of these ramrod tips in undamaged condition.  Apparently they came off too easily without a cross pin.  Lots of British soldiers running about missing their ramrod tips!

Jim

[Long John]

James Wilson,

That kind of wedge in the end of a tenon is called a "fox-wedge" in the cabinet maker trade.  It is a common attachment method, as old as the hills.  Indeed, I have used it for some of the furniture I have made.  I would NOT use a fox-wedge for a ramrod tip for the very reason you mentioned - it would pull off too easy.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[mountainman70]

A good friend of mine turns his on lathe.Nice ones too.Wonder if there is a market for em.Is that cheatin?Dave

[PPatch]

Dennis;

I too am in the market for a 3/8's 8-32 RR tip and worm. Be watching this thread for any information you post on Jim's prices and availability. I guess first dibs goes to Rich. 

Dave

[WadePatton]

A good friend of mine turns his on lathe.Nice ones too.Wonder if there is a market for em.Is that cheatin?Dave

only cheatin' for the hysterically correct.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Look here

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0

[PPatch]

Look here

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0

Tim: getting this message with that link "403 Forbidden - Access to this resource on the server is denied!"

Got the same on an earlier link on another thread. Don't know if it is my end or ALR's.

Dave

[Black Hand]

Works fine on my end.

[KLMoors]

Yup, works fine for me too in NC.

[Vomitus]

   Any traditional tips made from brass sheets? With a steel tip, I'd be afraid of scratching the bore. Just me,mind you.

[Dennis Glazener]

Quote from: Dr. Tim-Boone on Today at 09:53:22 AM
Look here

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0

Tim: getting this message with that link "403 Forbidden - Access to this resource on the server is denied!"

Got the same on an earlier link on another thread. Don't know if it is my end or ALR's.

Dave

Dave,
Must be on your end but its strange that you can access the forum but not that one link. I could get to Tim's link fine from my PC.
Dennis

[Pete G.]

A nail set makes an excellent mandrel for these. Look in your local hardware store (or home improvement center if you really have to). Not much difference between making a rod tip and a pipe. If you can make one, you can make the other.

[Mark Elliott]

Guys,

I make my tips by rolling and brazing sheet steel.   I do this, not because it is fully correct but because I am not good enough to forge weld the sheet.   All the the original tips I have seen were either forge welded or overlapped and pinned.  Most were forge welded.   I guess that I should really make a mandrel and learn how to forge weld them.   It would actually be easier once I learned to do it.   Cutting, filing, rolling, and brazing those things is actually a lot of trouble.    I have an exact template for cutting a 1/32" thick sheet steel blank for a 5/16" tip.   That is all I use.  All my ramrods taper from 3/8" to 5/16" in the thimbles.   I just make the ramrod loading tip larger as required by scraping down the appropriate size split hickory blank.   I use a pin punch alignment tool as my mandrel.   Then I pack the rolled tip with borax and a piece or two of brass wire or rod.   I lay it seam down in the forge and wait for the brass to melt.    Then I turn off the gas, let it cool and file off all the brass from the outside.   

[Mark Elliott]

I was just doing some thinking about forge welding these things.   Using sheet 1/32" - 1/16" thick, there is no way it will maintain welding heat long enough to get a mandrel into it and to the anvil.    If I keep the mandrel in the tip, what would keep the tip from welding to the mandrel?   Perhaps,  the sheet being so thin,  might melt on the edge and weld itself together in the forge such that all you are doing when you take the tip out is flatten the overlapped edge.   It wouldn't be a great weld, but good enough for the purpose.  What do you all think?    I need some more experienced blacksmiths to weigh in on this.   I will give it a shot this week and see what happens.    

[Jim Kibler]

Brazing is certainly historically correct.  Most all I can remember seeing were brazed.

[davec2]

I machine them out of round stock.  Much, much easier than making them from sheet and I don't consider it any less PC than using locks made by investment casting.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

And yours are prettier too..... Dave I need a 5/16' in steel for an English gun. do you have any?