Use of original style ramrod tips?

[Jerry V Lape]

This might sound a little weird, but how were these orginal tips used?  Did they put them in the thimbles first or last?  What did they normally carry attached to these tips, tow worms?   In loading did these tips get employed or was it the wood end of the ramrod that drove the ball? 

What about the wood end rods I have seen which were flared at the muzzle end, did they have these metal tips on the opposite end which would mean they were inside the forend.

 

[Steve Bookout]

Jerry, they were used both ways.  Seems to me the later the rifle, the more common it was to have the tip outside the stock.  Perhaps a good example of this is 'J. Gross for A.B.' rifle.  There are a few with two tips as well.  Cheers, Bookie

[Dennis Glazener]

The one flint rifle that I have with an original tapered tip (no worm) will only go in the rr hole with the tip forward. If the worm was on the rod it would stick past to muzzle too far to be safe carrying it. I have to assume the worm/jag (I suspect it had one of the flat type twisted jags) carried in the shot pouch.
Dennis

[Pete G.]

I have seen a couple of photos of rods that had a worm permanently attached to the aft end. I never could quite understand why ramrods were purposefully built to require turning them end for end to load every time.

[Artificer]

I hope I'm not walking on the thread, but I am wondering how early these style ramrod tips were used?

Gus

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I have seen a couple of photos of rods that had a worm permanently attached to the aft end. I never could quite understand why ramrods were purposefully built to require turning them end for end to load every time.

To make for skinnnnnnny forestocks..... .......

[rallen]

I would agree with Bookie although I haven't seen many originals. RCA 20 - 22 are all very early Reading rifles from (about) the late 1750's to the 1760's.  They all have rather long, almost 3" tapered ramrod tips. 21 & 22 appear to be original rods.  22 has a very small tow worm relative to the bore that is integral to the tip (ie. does not screw on and off) The tips make the rod 'tip heavy' and the rods are quite tapered so they slide nicely back into the stock.
Ryan

[paa]

In my studies of original rifles, I have only met with metal tips on the outboard end, for ramming,....twice.  Both of these were of poured pewter, and both of these were on original Schreyer rifles.  Most original rifles I have seen had ramrods of 3/8" diameter.  If over 50. caliber, they flared at the muzzle end to 7/16".  Very often, the 3/8" diameter tapered to 5/16" from the ramrod entry rearwards, where there was an iron tip designed for cleaning.  As a previous post noted - for a slimmer forestock.  I only do this for customers who are experienced shooters - I hate making replacement ramrods.  In any case, the basic ramrod diameter should never be greater than 3/8" And the cleaning tip should always be in the bottom of the ramrod hole.  Peter A. Alexander

[Jim Kibler]

Peter,

Another prominent rifle with a metal tip on the exposed end of the rod is RCA #42.  I'm sure you've had the chance to examine it.  It consists of brass sheet wrapped, soldered and pinned to the rod.  Every indication points to this being the original rod to the rifle.

Jim

[LRB]

  Just curious, but what are the indications of that rod being the original? The rod appears to be a bit short in the photo, is the bottom end intact? It just seems that one might run a bit short in seating a light load.

[Jim Kibler]

LRB,

Things which point to the rod being original would include the following:  

The rod size fits well in the pipes which are tapered and substantially incremented in size.
The rod has a tapered iron tip roled from sheet and brazed.
The brass tip corresponds to the length of the nose cap and fits well in the nose cap radius.
The brass tip is just under bore size (don't remember the exact size, but the bore is .480)
The brass tip matches in color with the rest of the sheet brass parts.

In general the rod is nicely made and seems to fit well with the rest of the rifle.  There is of course, no way to know if it were to be an early in use replacement.  One additional note...  The wood at the end of the rod with the brass tip is concave and this end was obviusly intended to be inserted into the bore when loading the rifle.

As far as the rod being short...  I know what you are refering to and I believe (but am not sure) the rod is long enough to load with.  I think the hole is a little deeper than it needs to be.  The wood under the front guard extension is broken out from the ramrod drill running a bit low and the rod is stopped by the guard lug, which I believe sits fairly far to the rear.  I'll see if I can't get a little more information on this.

Jim

[Dave K]

Is there a picture in this thread I am not seeing?

[Jim Kibler]

LRB,

A bit more information concerning the rod on #42.  I've been told the rod was likely shortened at some point and the iron tip set back.  The likely explanation for this was to allow the wiper or worm to be kept on the rod while in the stock.  I've been told a number of examples exist with this configuration, a few with the wiper still on the rod.

Jim

[LRB]

  Thanks for that info Jim. Now another question to you, or anyone else. With a worm attached to the rod, how would one load with it comfortably. Were these early original worms so long as to afford extra gripping area without hurting the hand in loading the gun, or were they removed for loading? It would  seem to me an extra step in the loading, and a good way way to lose the worm if it had to be removed in order to load, and it was previously mentioned some were permanently attached. OK, I see how the removable ones would not hinder loading from that other thread,  but what of the permanently attached types?

[Ky-Flinter]

Is there a picture in this thread I am not seeing?

Dave,

I believe they are referring to the pictures of gun #42 in the book Rifles of Colonial America (RCA for short), volume 1.

Ron

[Jim Kibler]

I'm with you there LRB.  It seems loading would be uncomfortable.  Perhaps a loose patch ball combination was used.  Don't really know what more to add.