Author Topic: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.  (Read 8863 times)

Offline Rolf

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Due to shipping restrictions, bottle/cans etc. with varnishes, oils etc, can't be shipped to Norway by mail. Dry stuff like waxes, shellac, kasenite is allowed, if it's not registered on the hazardous material list. There is not a large selection of gunfinishing products available in Norway. I have to either make it myself or use a synthetic oil or shellac.

The pistols I'm working on are nearing completion. The stocks are curly maple.I'll be using a vinegar/iron stain. Please recommend a oil/varinsh recipe that does not contain lead white.

Best  regards

Rolfkt

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 05:00:21 PM »
Rolf,

Stain with you V/I Stain then seal with 1# cut of dewaxed shellac, sand or scrape back to bare wood surface..depending on the openness of the grain you may need to do it a couple of times. Then, burnish the surface with a wadded up heavy brown paper bag ( ot other burnishing cloth or tool if you want) You need a medium oil finish after the burishing. Here I like the Linseed Oil based finish from Jim Chambers.  You can make your own from Dan's receipe...... or I woul think in Scandinavia you should be able to get some old fashioned (No urethane plastics) Spar varnish from a marine supply house. It is a fine varnish. You will have to rub the shine off with rottenstone when finished but itshould be a reliable and maybe even historically correct alternative that is a lot less messy than making your own varnish....

If you do make some, pleaase record all the steps in writing and pictures and post it as a tutorial for us........ who knows, I may even devide to try it....

Good luck, I know the pistols are going to be beautiful!!
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 05:32:46 PM »
The USA boiled linseed oil can be made into a decent stock finish by re-cooking in the presence of limestone and adding a little more drier.
Adding limestone when re-cooking it will kill the organic acids and helps speed the drying.
Mad Monk would be the one to answer this question.

If you search for posts on linseed oil you will find details on making boiled oil. But I have no idea if "Japan Drier" for example is available in Europe.

Dan
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Offline whitebear

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 02:18:12 AM »
Could you please expound on this more or let us know where to get this information?

The USA boiled linseed oil can be made into a decent stock finish by re-cooking in the presence of limestone and adding a little more drier.
Adding limestone when re-cooking it will kill the organic acids and helps speed the drying.
Mad Monk would be the one to answer this question.

If you search for posts on linseed oil you will find details on making boiled oil. But I have no idea if "Japan Drier" for example is available in Europe.

Dan
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 05:17:11 PM »
Could you please expound on this more or let us know where to get this information?

The USA boiled linseed oil can be made into a decent stock finish by re-cooking in the presence of limestone and adding a little more drier.
Adding limestone when re-cooking it will kill the organic acids and helps speed the drying.
Mad Monk would be the one to answer this question.

If you search for posts on linseed oil you will find details on making boiled oil. But I have no idea if "Japan Drier" for example is available in Europe.

Dan



I have gone over it several times on this site.
Dump a gallon of "boiled" oil in old deep fat fryer, add some limestone or even calcium carbonate, I use some limestone pebbles about the size of my thumb 3-4 is enough, whack them with a hammer a couple of times and put all the resulting limestone in the pot. Add a tablespoon or so of japan drier, though "boiled oil" as purchased has driers added. Set fryer on high and wait. As the oil heats it will react with the limestone and bubble for awhile.
When it reaches max temp the oil will smoke. Leave here for 1/2 or so then let cool. Decant 1/2 the oil into pint jars and then cook the rest again for a hour or more to make thicker bodied oil. The lighter oil will also make oil cloth without rotting the fabric as is most likely the outcome with off the shelf "boiled" linseed since its pretty acidic. Why the calcium carbonate is added to the pot.
The oil can be further thickened by covering a 1/2 full pint jar with a cloth to allow the oil to thicken. it will skin over and get very thick but will still work well for fill on walnut when too thick to drip off a finger. Cut the skin and dip out what is needed.

There are other things that can be added to this to make oil varnishes. For top coats I mix the oil with Grumbachers Oil Painters Medium III this makes a very durable finish that will not water spot and has nothing "new" in it but some D-limonene. This can be left outside all fall and winter in MT with no checking, pealing etc.

I have been playing around with re-cooking (the oil never really boils in a deep fat frier) with the Grumbachers and natural pigment burnt umber and burnt sienna (oil painters colors). It will give this color and a shine if simply painted on maple with no stain. The pigments do not combine well cold in my experience

I think with some experimentation it would make a single pass finish for plain maple  etc for barn guns and such though it does little for the curl. It seems it will even "level" scraped wood that has not even had the grain raised. I think it should be possible to scrape the stock smooth then paint/wipe on the finish and after a few hours in direct sun or indoors for a couple of days in winter the gun would be ready for use.

What I do in stock finishes is based on information Mad Monk sent me years back. He knows far more that I.

Dan
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Leatherbelly

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 06:44:29 AM »
  Are leather dyes allowed in the country? Taylor did my stock with Fiebing(sp) dark brown,added a drop of red and yellow(same dye maker) to get a dark colored wood with  a red undertone. Allen Sandy's finish(purchased at Dixon's) was then applied. Turned out real nice. I believe the stain and finish are alcohol based. Won't fade or rub off in your hands,even on wet days outdoors.

Offline Rolf

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 09:58:14 AM »
Leather dyes, no problem. Knifemaking is populare in Norway and dyes are used on the sheathes. But on these pistols, I want to use a iron/vinegar stain I made.

Best regards
Rolfkt

Offline Curt Larsen

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 07:44:33 PM »
Rolf, my recipe is from an old Swedish (sorry about that) cabinet maker.  It is pretty standard here as well.  I just use equal parts of spar varnish, linseed oil, and turperntine.  Spar varnish has ultraviolet protection.   I normally use artist quality sun-thickened linseed oil as it is already thicker than the boiled varieties we find in our local hardware stores.  I don't know how acidic this type of linseed oil is re: some of the posts above on boiling with CaCO3 to neutralize acids.  It always works well for me.  I use 5 or 6 coats, wait for them to dry and then rub down with fine (0000) steel wool between each coat.  If I'm still not happy I put on more coats.  This isn't as fast as some of the synthetics on the market, but probably more authentic.
mvh
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Offline Steve Bookout

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 06:51:11 AM »
Hei Rolf.  That pesky Nordmann Curt Larsen came prowling around min Padde Hus i går.  Made his wife stay outside while he was cooling his heels in the shop and eating me out of house and home.  Everytime I turned my head, he'd be sneaking all kinds of things into his pockets.  I don't know what all he took, but his car barely made it out of the driveway because it was setting so low to the ground!  Here's a photo of us.  I'm the good looking one with the slender physique!  Actually, he's a very nice gentleman and he's the first archaeologist I ever met!  Glad he stopped by.  Cheers, Bookie
Steve Bookout, PhD, CM, BSM
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Offline Rolf

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2010, 10:08:34 PM »
Hei Bookie, det ser ut som dere har det trivelig!! Wish I could have been there. One of my day dream fantasies is to build a pistol from scratch with a barrel I forged at Toad hall. But with the price of plane tickets, etc. I doubt my wife would authorize the expense.

Best regards
Rolfkt

Offline David Veith

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 12:24:35 AM »
On the old board there was a lot of infomation as I remember, on making Varnish. Did you Find Eirc K----------- From muzzloader or blast write up. about 8 years ago time line wise.
David Veith
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chiefs50

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 12:46:48 AM »
I cook boiled linseed oil in a deep fryer with a little crushed limestone added.  I cook it until it is smoking good and turns dark.  I will leave it uncovered for a day or so to thicken up even more.  I then add a bit of Japan Drier and voila!  Works well for me.

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2010, 01:17:20 AM »
Heed the advice of Dphariss.
his finishes work

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 06:08:52 AM »
Quote
I cook boiled linseed oil in a deep fryer with a little crushed limestone added.
I dont' know why you guys fool around with gravel.  Why not just throw a Tums or Rolaids in the pot....same stuff, better job.  And what's the big deal about removing these so called acids supposedly contained in the oil and how do you even know they are there?  Then you turn around and slather the oil on a walnut stock that is loaded with tannic acid.  What's the point?
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 06:14:48 AM »
Quote
I cook boiled linseed oil in a deep fryer with a little crushed limestone added.
I dont' know why you guys fool around with gravel.  Why not just throw a Tums or Rolaids in the pot....same stuff, better job.  And what's the big deal about removing these so called acids supposedly contained in the oil and how do you even know they are there?  Then you turn around and slather the oil on a walnut stock that is loaded with tannic acid.  What's the point?


I have used calcium tablets at times.
But I know how much rock works and its free.
The acids retard the drying. Apparently the tannic acid does not.
And if you make oil cloth the acids will often rot the fabric in a year or less.
So its just easier to do it right in the first place.
Dan
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Offline Rolf

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Re: Need recipes for gun finishes(oils/varnishes) without lead white.
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 12:20:04 AM »
I have hunted high and low. Nobody sells japan drier or cobalt sicctives in Norway. All the spar varnish I can find is synthetic. I'll try making the oil with home made lead white and egg shells. If it doesn't work, I'll use Chestnut(brand name) finishing oil.

Best regards

Rolfkt