ball starter for smoothbore hunting

[sonny]

wondering,....This will be my first year shooting my 54 cal smoothie for deer hunting.Should i try to find a load that won't need a ball starter but give exceptable accuracy at 50 yrds.Or, should i forget having just exceptable accuracy,an load tight with a ball starter with slighly more accuracy??I really wanted to be F&I period correct an not use a ball starter as i really go out of my way to be period correct.How can anybody be period correct with a perfect set up in the period style,with a ball starter stitched to there pouch strap.Is it just me or do ballstarters ruin the period correct high,when you hunt for large game.....thks....sonny

[BrownBear]

I'm not worried about period correct, but I work hard for simplicity when hunting.   Take my answer in that light, but I think it still works for you.  I don't like a ball starter on hunting bags simply because it's one more dangly piece of gear in the brush and one more step to get through when and if a fast reload is needed.

My solution is to hunt with a tight load down the bore, but be prepared for follow up loads with looser ones.  I've got the premium accuracy when I need it for the first shot, but I'm willing to give up a bit of accuracy in exchange for speed on a subsequent shot.  Not bragging about my shooting and maybe the opposite, but I seldom need the second shot because a miss is a miss.  A  second shot is only needed if a finishing shot is required, and that's at closer range.

[tg]

I use several differnt balls in my .58 fuzzee, I have found no need to use a load so tight that a short starter is needed to achieve accuracy well within that needed for deer at my self imposed limit of 40-50 yds , I usualy start with a .562 and .015 patch and carry some .550 and .535 balls for reloads, usually with a bare ball and tow or leaves, or an over shot card  to hold the ball in placey ou will have to see how loose a load will give you what you want.

[northmn]

I do like Brown Bear and load the first load a little tighter and carry ball in my block that can be run in with a ramrod.  Since you are trying to be period correct the loading block may not have been used during the F & I period.  As to period correct loads, I suspect there was some individual variation.

DP 

[George Sutton]

I have two smoothbores, an old Centermark Tulle, 20 ga. and a custon 12 ga. Butch Darrel smooth rifle.

For accuracy, the 20 ga. requires a tight patched roundall started with a short starter and the 12 ga. I can start with my thumb. They are all beasts unto themselves.

Centershot.

[northmn]

For accuracy, the 20 ga. requires a tight patched roundall started with a short starter and the 12 ga. I can start with my thumb. They are all beasts unto themselves.

Centershot.

Ain't it the truth.

DP

[Leatherbelly]

 JMHO, I think accuracy with ALL shots is most important. If a short starter can get the ball down the barrel for best accuracy,then use it. I didn't realize ball starters were not PC. I make my own out of a short piece of moose antler (about 1 1/2" dia) and an 8 inch piece of hickory dowel at about 9/16". With a fairly tightly patched roundball in my 20 gauge,it loads like a dream with the starter and only adds about 4 seconds to reloading.
 Oh,BTW, I have a brass tip on the starter that I shape the end to fit the .595 ball for no deforming of the ball. With a tightly patched ball and a good lube,there is no need for smaller balls, as the lube and patched ball  clean as you reload. I never need to swab the bore with this combo.

[James Rogers]

I would go ahead and use the ball starter if needed and use the loading block as well. Why? Because for the most part I think using PRB in a smooth gun is F&I PC questionable as well.

Get her shooting like you need her to and go have a blast.

[Mike R]

I would go ahead and use the ball starter if needed and use the loading block as well. Why? Because for the most part I think using PRB in a smooth gun is F&I PC questionable as well.

Get her shooting like you need her to and go have a blast.

not to start an argument but I question your assertion.  On what basis do you question the use of round balls in F&I [war] period smoothbores? Loading blocks and short starters on the other hand cannot be documented to the 18th cent, but if that is not an issue, then use them if you wish.  Most experts think that short starters were tools of the target shooters, who tended to load tight.  F&I war soldiers and militia and civilians all shot a combination of round ball, buckshot and bird shot from their various muskets, fusils and fowlers.  This is supported by archeological finds, period inventories, etc.

[James Rogers]

Read it again. I probably could have worded it more clearly but I did not assert that round ball was not fired from smooth guns. I did state that I am of the opinion that PATCHED round balls were not the norm in a smooth gun. I just dont find anything to suggest regular use of PRB being used in a musket or fowling piece in the mid 18th century. Not to say it is not possible but it is also possible someone made use of  a ball starter and loading block as well.
I dont disagree that shot and ball was fired out of the same gun by individuals though.

Regards,
James
 

[Roger Fisher]

So Sonny load first one tight and next loose.  Take a good shot and you probably won't need a 2nd shot!

BTW Still saving a spot for you guys at First Frontier-----Come on in and shot Sat and Sunday Oct 11th and 12th.   We pay off Sat nite then start anew shoot Sun.

[Longknife]

I  use snug fitting patched round balls in my smooth bores to hunt deer with. I used to  make paper cartridges with the same balls for quick follow up shots but found they were rarely needed (I am THAT GOOD!!!!! HA!!!!) You can make a "mini" cartridge block for carrying them in your pouch. I dip the ball end of the cartridge in melted patch lube. Now don't tell me that paper cartridges and cartridge blocks are not PC!!!!!...Ed

[northmn]

When you get into the "correct" thing you ahve to start to differentiate between military use and civilian use.  Military use had generally been that of laying down rapid vollys as compared to a civilian making the shot count.  You may also run into legal issues concerning "correct" loads.  NWT guns found locally were mostly loaded with shot.  A shotgun up close will take deer if you hit them in back of the head (lets not get into how I know)  if using heavier shot, such as #4 on up.  The use of heavy shot, buck and ball and buckshot is frowned upon by the MN game wardens.  Also any deer gun with a RB should be loaded accurately for the range intended.  If you can get good accuracy and restrain yourself as TG suggested, then do not use a tight combo.  If not go for accuracy.  Bow hunters use the 8 inch pie plate test.  Shoot as far as you can keep all your shots in an 8" circle.  If it works for them it works for us.

DP

[J.D.]

I have been shooting a load that thumb starts in my bess for nearly 25 years with good accuracy. IMHO, all the patch does in a smoothbore is hold the ball centered on the bore, and you don't need a patch/ball combination that needs a short starter to achieve good accuracy. IMHO, too many folks want to use a too large ball that requires a thin patch, which IMHO, harms accuracy, not to mention ruining the pure joy of shooting smoothbores.

Lets say, hypothetically, that your bore is a true .540. And lets say you are trying to shoot a .530 ball.

.540-.530= .010/2=.005 patch thickness. IMHO, a .530 ball with a .010 patch won't go down without a mallet.

.540-.510=.030/2=.015., so a .510 ball with a .015 patch should load fairly easily, because the .015 patch has enough crush to allow fairly easy loading with a tight enough fit to shoot well.

Each gun is an individual to itself, so ya' gotta try different loads to learn what it likes.
I suspect that a .500 or .510 ball with the proper patch thickness, lube, and powder charge will shoot as accurately than you can hold it at 50 yards.

[Daryl]

If you need an accurate load, I'd suggest one that needs a ball starter. If you need a fast second shot in the bush, nothing is faster than a properly sized paper ctg.  Countries the world over wouldn't have used them for the military if they weren't the fastest method of loading a front stuffer.  All you need to do further is to use the right sized ball and paper to get a snug fit.