Christian Springs Rifles. Who ya gonna call?

[BuffaloGun]

Since I have decided that I am not up to properly building the Christian Springs/Edward Marshall rifle of my dreams my option is to pony up and buy  the danged thing. I have seen discussions about smiths who have done wonderful work on the various PA schools but have not seen any mention of anyone's work in this style.
If you were going shopping for an Edward Marshall rifle, who would you call?

[Mike R]

Eric Kettenberg

[Bushy]

Hi to post
I would call Mike Miller.  I have 3 custom guns from Mike and a Chambers 54 Mark Silver that Mike and His apprentice K Stanley put together for me.  He is topnotch and very reasonable.  Mike is a craftsmen and builder artist who has yet acheived the dollar value for his work.  Mike is also a great guy who is very easy going and trys very hard to build as some like PC.  He goes all out to study what he builds.  Give him a call you will be surpised at his finished product and price.

Bushy(Vaya Con Dios Amigo)  Stay Well and Shoot Often

[smshea]

Call Mark wheland

[B Shipman]

Eric Kettenburg and Mark Weyland are the top dogs in this style I would say and you can see their work on their websites , MBlasts cover and CLA bulletin.

[Bushy]

Yep
They are also very good builders.   There are many out there including you B. Shipman.   The only hurdles that you have to pass is price and thats where the variance comes into the picture.  So look at them all ,  check price per services performed.  I still stand by Mike Miller.  Can't get any better product for your hard earned cash.   I checked them all.  There are many other builders that give you quality and price but you need to have a connection with the builder you choose.  Personalities also enter the equation.  When I was getting quotes for my 54 Chambers Mark Silver to be assembled I spoke to many.   I wanted a plain gun with little carving.  Boy prices went from $900.00 to $3600.00.  From six months to 2 years.  Way too much to put a kit together.  Several quotes from my fellow countymen were way above ridiculess.  Mike Miller and his Apprentice K Stanly put it together .   Its  well worth the price of the kit from Jim Chambers and the money that they charged for assembly.    More gun than I'll ever need.  First 5 shots at 13 yards all near dead centre.  Shot her 46 times without a misfire, no flint change or cleaning between shots.  Love that Mike Miller,  Love the Chambers Lock and Love the gun.  Mike also built me a 54 Tulle which is so close to the PC it makes me cringe.  Only has a 42" Rice barrel, I know its too short but not for me and it's me what counts for my flinters.  Thats the feeling that you get when you find the right builder.  Take your sweet time and pick the guy that you connect with, he will always part of the gun. 

Bushy(Vaya Con Dios Amigos)  Stay Well and Shoot Often

[BuffaloGun]

I guess this will me my big quest at Dixon's next month.
I'll talk to as many guys as possible. As my eldest son Readies for college the budget is limited so the high end stuff is off the table and I like plainer guns anyway. Time is not an issue for me, I can wait for delivery and don't care much if it get pushed back for another project.
Actually, I would plan on any gun I own seeing the PA woods in late December.
I always remember Christmas.
It's the day before late M/L season!

[E.vonAschwege]

 I wanted a plain gun with little carving.  Boy prices went from $900.00 to $3600.00.  From six months to 2 years.  Way too much to put a kit together.  Several quotes from my fellow countymen were way above ridiculess. 
Bushy

It sounds like a lot of money, but even a Chambers kit requires a lot of skill and experience to make a really fine rifle.  The fellows that charge more are the ones with the experience and knowhow to build the best rifle possible from the kit.  The parts may all be "pre-inlet", but they still require the final inletting.  That's just one area where the $900 dollar guy just won't compare to the $2500.00 guy.   Carving adds a lot to the pricetag... it's a specialized skill and again there's a big difference between the lesser priced and the higher priced guns.   Say you just want a plain rifle, no frills, no carving... it still has to have a stain and finish.  Anyone can apply one color of aniline dye and some permalyn and call it done.  The guys who charge more usually go through a lot more effort and time in the finishing process.   The results speak for themselves.  There are a lot of rifles out there with not the best fit and finish that shoot JUST as well as the ones that cost more... Probably a lot more of them being used than higher cost arms, and they may have the same locks and barrels, but it comes down to the time and effort put into building it.


Mike Miller sure looks like he does some beautiful work, I'd never even heard of him until you mentioned his name (that too is another thing that affects price).  What I said above doesn't refer to any gunsmiths in particular, it's just a generalization when comparing prices of longrifles at Dixon's.   See you there!
-Eric

[C Wallingford]

 I wanted a plain gun with little carving.  Boy prices went from $900.00 to $3600.00.  From six months to 2 years.  Way too much to put a kit together.  Several quotes from my fellow countymen were way above ridiculess. 
Bushy

It sounds like a lot of money, but even a Chambers kit requires a lot of skill and experience to make a really fine rifle.  The fellows that charge more are the ones with the experience and knowhow to build the best rifle possible from the kit.  The parts may all be "pre-inlet", but they still require the final inletting.  That's just one area where the $900 dollar guy just won't compare to the $2500.00 guy.   Carving adds a lot to the pricetag... it's a specialized skill and again there's a big difference between the lesser priced and the higher priced guns.   Say you just want a plain rifle, no frills, no carving... it still has to have a stain and finish.  Anyone can apply one color of aniline dye and some permalyn and call it done.  The guys who charge more usually go through a lot more effort and time in the finishing process.   The results speak for themselves.  There are a lot of rifles out there with not the best fit and finish that shoot JUST as well as the ones that cost more... Probably a lot more of them being used than higher cost arms, and they may have the same locks and barrels, but it comes down to the time and effort put into building it.


Mike Miller sure looks like he does some beautiful work, I'd never even heard of him until you mentioned his name (that too is another thing that affects price).  What I said above doesn't refer to any gunsmiths in particular, it's just a generalization when comparing prices of longrifles at Dixon's.   See you there!
-Eric

Mike Miller is one of the up and coming young builders. He has been written up on numerous occcasions in both Muzzleloader and Muzzle Blasts Magazines. If I am not mistaken there was a picture of a brace of pistols posted on the old site recently that Mike built.

[Ezra]

I have three recommendations.  Two of which have been posted already.

 - Mark Wheland
 - Eric Kettenburg
 - Brad Emig


Ez

[Bushy]

Hi to Post
Yep there surely are alot of builders out there to compete for your money.  The 3 that were last mentioned are great builders.  Seen and handled some of their work.  I can't  justify to me  paying the prices  of many of the builders.   It's me that counts.   I can get one built with the same parts, from the same suppliers built by someone who has maybe not reached the King of fame in the building game.  Its kind of like a wine snob I guess.  I got friends who won't drink any unless it's  French in the 200.00 plus range.   Does the wine taste any better than my 22.00 bottle of Chilean.  Not to me.    I have 4 beautiful custom built guns.  There not built by the Kings but they all shoot better than I do.  Wood to metal fit is par none.  Carving whether relief or incised top notch.  Engraving crisp.  All Rice barrels.  All Chambers locks oops 1 is a Caywood but sparks like the 4th of July.
There are one heck of alot of builders  and their prices vary but in the end if you use any one of them you got yourself a great gun.  Only difference, by being selective you can save alot of money for other items you may require.
My humble thoughts.  Just a pilgrim with 4 great custom guns.

Bushy(Vaya Con Dios Amigos)Stay Well and Shoot Often

[Acer Saccharum]

I like both EK's work and Mark Wheland's. I have seen both interpretations in person, and they are super guns.

[don getz]

I would highly recommend Mark Wheland..   He recently finished a copy of the Edward Marshall rifle, with the proper
cast off built in like the original.  Fabulous job.  It was built for a Marshall family decendent......Don

[t.caster]

I know I wasn't mentioned by all the Pa. guys, but I've been around here awhile. I just happen to have a nice Chambers Edward Marshall Kit in progress on my workbench, that is not yet spoken for, if you are interested. It is .58 cal and would be a great hunting rifle. I can finish with or without carving...whatever you prefer. I've posted a number finished rifles on the old sight, so you can see my work and read the opinions. Let me know if you're interested.

[Collector]

I hear that Bill Rugge (sp) has Allen Martin building him a Christian Springs piece, .60 cal. X 44" that is reported to be an absolutely 'outstanding' piece of work.  Personaly, I can't wait to see it and I hope he brings it to the CLA in Lexington, this year.  Just another option... if you're shopping around a bit. 

[lew wetzel]

give tom caster a holler,like he says he has one started on the bench,already half way done for ya.i have some pics of a couple of his rifles i printed off the old sight,i keep them in my scrapbook of ideas for future builds.he does nice work...

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

All the recommendations have been great!  If Tom Caster has one ready to finish up.....you could hunt with it this fall!!

[Gene Carrell]

I can vouch  for Tom Caster's abilities and  attention to detail. He delivered a Shroyer (RCA 95) to me a few months ago. I would put it up agains't anyones work. Fair price too.

[don getz]

G. Hansen....I had that Allen Martin gun in my hand today (the one he did for Bill Ruggie)....awesome.  I did look at it
quickly at the KRA show on saturday, but had more time today.  The carving and overall finish is really great, and I feel
is one of Allen's best yet.  Allen brought it along home after the KRA to do some final antiquing and finishing and will have
it at the CLA show....Don

[Dphariss]

Yep
They are also very good builders.   There are many out there including you B. Shipman.   The only hurdles that you have to pass is price and thats where the variance comes into the picture.  So look at them all ,  check price per services performed.  I still stand by Mike Miller.  Can't get any better product for your hard earned cash.   I checked them all.  There are many other builders that give you quality and price but you need to have a connection with the builder you choose.  Personalities also enter the equation.  When I was getting quotes for my 54 Chambers Mark Silver to be assembled I spoke to many.   I wanted a plain gun with little carving.  Boy prices went from $900.00 to $3600.00.  From six months to 2 years.  Way too much to put a kit together.  Several quotes from my fellow countymen were way above ridiculess.  Mike Miller and his Apprentice K Stanly put it together .   Its  well worth the price of the kit from Jim Chambers and the money that they charged for assembly.    More gun than I'll ever need.  First 5 shots at 13 yards all near dead centre.  Shot her 46 times without a misfire, no flint change or cleaning between shots.  Love that Mike Miller,  Love the Chambers Lock and Love the gun.  Mike also built me a 54 Tulle which is so close to the PC it makes me cringe.  Only has a 42" Rice barrel, I know its too short but not for me and it's me what counts for my flinters.  Thats the feeling that you get when you find the right builder.  Take your sweet time and pick the guy that you connect with, he will always part of the gun. 

Bushy(Vaya Con Dios Amigos)  Stay Well and Shoot Often

Lets see 40 hours, 50 dollars an hour shop time. 2000.
Think this is high? Go look at the shop rate for a parts changer at the GM or Ford dealer.
You get what you pay for. If someone does good work too cheap he is cheating himself. I worked too cheap for years. Still do. Priced a gun build off the top of my head at 3000 the other day and its too cheap.
Mass produced bolt actions go for $700 up and have almost no handwork in them at all.

Dan

[Z. Buck]

i do some minor work to modern guns that requires almost zero fitting for no less than 20 dollars an hour and that requires almost no skill but knowledge, anytime i do anything that requires any skill, i go for 35 and that about as high as the market around here can bear... its not hard to do the math, i know some guys who do not charge even ten dollars an hour, but they also only sell what they made because they felt like making it, no real commission work, they do it for themselves and sell it to get parts for the next, and maybe buy a new chisel or rasp... i feel that you have allot of good options given to you and you should be tickled pink with whoever you choose

[Curt J]

I'm another Mike Miller fan. I have examined his work up close on a number of occasions. He is second to none. If I was going to have a new rifle built, he would be my first choice. He's also a heck of a nice guy!

[Brian]

I'm NOT bad mouthing anybody mentioned so far.  All are fantastic craftsmen.  But I'd sure also take a look at the work of Allen Martin.   As I understand it, Allen taught some of these guys.  I've seen his work.  Wow is an understatement.

Just something to think about.  Compare them all, go with who you are happy with.  But before you decide, take a look at Allen's work.

[Acer Saccharum]

I second Allen Martin. At the last Gunmaker's Fair he received a very special trophy, I think it was for the best at something. Matt Harshbarger knows all the details, but it was a very touching ceremony, and Allen accepted the award with grace befitting such a talented and prolific builder.

[Kingsman06]

I agree with all the recommendations.  However, Mark Wheland drove me nuts at the CLA show with his 60 cal Christian Springs rifle.  John Getz called it the griffen rifle because of the carving.  It was magnificent, luckily I did not have the money.  Otherwise I would have had a lot of explaining when I got home.

DZ