Author Topic: British Provincial Gun Makers (Read 13802 times)

Feltwad · « **on:** January 02, 2011, 05:07:07 PM »

Has a researcher and a restorer I would be interested to know if any muzzle loading shotgun or rifle by the following British provincial gun makers ended up in collection's in the States.
eg
Hesketh, Rowntree, Teasdale, Fisher, Booth, Greener, Gardner,Burnand,Davision,Harrison, Wallis.
Images would be a great help
Feltwad

Arnie Dowd · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2011, 05:43:54 PM »

If you include Scotland in the definition of British Provincial then I present a truly fine 20ga SXS percussion by W. (William) Mclauchlan/Maclauchlan who worked circa 1806-1849 in Edinburgh. It has 31" barrels, with "boss" style patent breech and platinum blow-out plugs. The gun is stocked in walnut with checkered wrist and all steel, engraved mounts in a oversized bow in the trigger-guard for use with gloves as it get cold in the Highlands ! Interestingly, I have a small, box-lock, flintlock (with sliding safety) pocket pistol by the same maker. It is a screw-off barrel with a flip-down trigger. He was a very talented maker who made fine products. I willl try to post some photos soon.

Feltwad · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2011, 07:32:31 PM »

Arnie
If my memory serves me correct did I not post the information too you on this gun maker a few months ago.The gun makers I have listed are from the northern counties just south of the Scottish border of the UK

Feltwad

doug · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2011, 10:01:55 PM »

It sounds like you are not referring to W Greener, the father of WW Greener. I think he was from or worked around Birmingham. I also think that Bob Spencer who has a web page and formerly of MLML has a W Greener percussion shotgun.

cheers Doug

Feltwad · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2011, 11:38:02 PM »

Doug
Yes I am referring to William Greener father of W.W.Greener who was born at Birtley ,Newcastle upon Tyne and started his apprenticeship with John Gardner at Bigg Hill Market. Newcastle and then John Manton, London.
He started in business at 29 Collingwood St, Newcastle in 1829 -1834 moving to 60 Pilgrim St Newcastle 1834- 44. In 1844 he moved to Birmingham and started in business.
Feltwad

Arnie Dowd · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2011, 12:21:58 AM »

Feltwad - YES you did assist and provide me with the info - which I do appreciate.
If Scotland is out-of-bounds then I apologize for inc the reference. I re-reading the original post it seems that I mis-read it in that only the gun-makers listed are to be discussed. Thanks, Arnie

Feltwad · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2011, 12:39:44 AM »

Arnie
No offence taken ,your gun is by a first class Scottish maker which is equal to those of the top London makers. I have restored several m/l shotguns by W Mclauchlan along with other Scottish makers 'Lets have some images
Feltwad

T*O*F · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2011, 01:13:43 AM »

Quote

I also think that Bob Spencer who has a web page and formerly of MLML has a W Greener percussion shotgun.

Art Fleener had a W. Greener percussion double in excellent condition. He even corresponded a bit with Graham Greener about it and its history. He just sold it in 2010.

Also, there was a W. Greener double at the World ML championships held in Batesville, IN a couple of years ago. Turner Kirkland's son (CRS) coveted it but was trying to haggle the seller down even though the price was very reasonable. He went to lunch and someone bought it out from under him for the asking price. He was PO'd.

I've seen a couple others over the years and a lot of WW Greeners. They seem to be reasonably common.

Feltwad · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2011, 01:50:33 AM »

William Greener when in Newcastle not only made sporting guns and rifles but also military muskets ,another good outlet was suppling and servicing Harpoon guns for the Dundee whalers when they docked in the Tyne .
W.W.Greener his son is more associated with the breech loader

Feltwad

Majorjoel · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2011, 02:03:22 PM »

Feltwad, you gave me much help in identifying specific info about a muzzle loading sxs shotgun I was looking at a few months ago. It was a very fine quality piece made by Burnand. Although I did not buy it mainly because I thought 1200.00 dollars was too high, it was made by one of the makers on your list. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures. I do know that this gun now resides in a collection somewhere in my home town. I hope this will be of some help to you.

Feltwad · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2011, 04:10:19 PM »

Captjoel

You should have bought this gun at $1200 it was a bargain providing it was in good original condition The last Burnand I saw come up for auction only a few weeks ago here in the UK although it was mint and cased with accessories made including commission nearly £2000 sterling
Feltwad

Feltwad · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:15:23 PM »

By only a few replies it seems that very few shotguns or rifles of the provincial gun makers I listed ended in collections in the States. Greener and Burnand were well known makers but not more than Harrison or Rowntree .
If we take Lancelot Harrison of Carlisle ,my research into this maker I came across a writing that the American Navy Officer John Paul Jones owned a flintlock fowler by Harrison of Carlisle .
For Rowntree this gunmaker is reputed to have built the first for Joshua Shaw a sxs percussion gun using steel top hat percussion caps .Most books wrote by researchers class this not correct but my research showed that James Rowntree was building guns and pistols in 1814 using steel top hat percussion caps . Most books contain writings from other books which over many decades become distorted for myself I always double check my research and not rely on books .
Feltwad

T*O*F · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:38:26 PM »

Quote

Joshua Shaw

Feltwad,
The name Shaw jogged my memory. I have a percussion double that is signed Shaw on the lockplates. Haven't looked at it in many years. Might have to dig it out and refresh my memory on it. As I recall, I could only find one builder named Shaw in Boothroyd. It may not even be English.

Feltwad · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2011, 12:08:18 AM »

TOF

The Joshua Shaw I referred too is the Joshua Shaw that is recorded too have invented the percussion cap.
As to the gun maker named Shaw there were several all were provincial gun makers and worked in the towns of Manchester and Lancaster in the county of Lancashire . if the gun has the first name or initials then I may be able to narrow it down to a date also an image would help.
Feltwad

Feltwad · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2011, 05:37:50 PM »

I thought some historian in the States would have known about the flintlock fowler built by Lancelot Harrison of Carlisle UK and owned by American Navel Officer John Paul Jones,according to the writings which I came across and mentioned early in this thread .
Feltwad

Watson123 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:12:56 AM »

I have a Richard Booth of Sunderland muzzle loading shotgun handed down from my grandpa. If your still interested I'll provide photos.

vtbuck223 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2012, 05:38:56 AM »

Feltwad....here are some pics of my W. Greener 10 gauge double. According to Graham Greener the serial # indicates that it was made in 1856-1857. I must say that I was surprised at how few images of W. Greener guns I was able to find when I was doing the research on this gun. Because of this... I assume they are somewhat rare?

Feltwad · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2012, 10:15:49 AM »

Watson.

Richard Booth was the son of Samuel Booth who followed on the business of gunmaker from his father .He was in business at 200, High St, Sunderland, his clientele would mostly have been the local gentry , but also like most of the gunmakers who traded in the area of the river Wear and the Tyne would have supplied the sea going vessels with powder ,shot . guns, pistol ,etc .
To be frank although I know the area very well I have never come across a percussion shotgun by this maker so would be gratefull for images .Thanking you
Feltwad

Feltwad · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2012, 10:47:55 AM »

vtbuck223
Thank you for the images of the W.Greener sxs percussion gun.This gunmaker who was born at Birtley a town south of the Tyne river who first started his apprenticeship With the Newcastle gunmaker Gardener and later with John Manton, London before returning to Newcastle ,I have come across several sxs percussion shotguns which he made in Birmingham, but more rare are those he made in Newcastle ,my research has shown that this was mainly due to the demand his main trade was harpoon guns with the Dundee whalers that docked in the Tyne .Also at that period there were several long established gunmakers working in Newcastle who would have a large proportion of the clientele.Looking at the images I can see similar features of Gardeners style of workmanship.
Feltwad

Chris Treichel · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:04:18 PM »

You might try contacting this place. http://www.thegunmuseum.com/ If memory serves me there were quite a number of lovely early shotguns in this collection when I passed through Oklahoma in 2002.

Watson123 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2012, 06:30:40 PM »

I tried posting photos of the Booth shotgun this morning to no avail. I did get a red X box with the file extension behind it. Maybe the file was too big? I'll have to try again later today.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2012, 06:43:38 PM »

Watson, here is the tutorial on posting pictures: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Watson123 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2012, 01:47:43 AM »

Another photo try Mr. Feltwad. Thanks for the help Tim. Greatly appreciated. If this works let me know of specific areas to photograph and I will forward them. She needs to be cleaned up a bit but I want to make sure I'm using the correct products so I dont damage it. Booth Gun

Since my last post above I have shined it up a bit with a dry cloth showing much more detail. I've taken more photos since. Is there a way to post them on my profile so I don't use up so much space on the thread with photos?

Feltwad · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2012, 09:34:44 AM »

Thank you for sharing the images of your Richard Booth SXS percussion gun .I would date the gun around 1845-50 ,it is still in original condition it may have had the vent replaced by a screw ,the trigger guard with the pistol type grip is not often seen in guns of the area but is genuine.The gun most likely will have the the crossed scepters of the Birmingham proof house and the bore size on the underside of the barrels.My records show that Richard Booth was in business at 200 High Street ,Sunderland from 1827 to 1851.
You mentioned shining it up a bit do not over do it the gun looks OK to me just remove the dust and clean the bore from dust , dead spiders and such and oil.
You have a first class gun by a good provincial gun maker look after it, it is part of your heritage ,hopefully it will remain in your family for more generations Thank you
Feltwad

Watson123 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2012, 12:22:15 AM »

Mr. Feltwad

Thanks for expert information. I enjoy firearms of more recent production and am entertaining selling the Richard Booth to some one who may know how to fire it or have other Booths and may want to add the shotgun to there collection. You have already been generous with your time. Is there a blue book you can recommend or another way to get to a selling price for the gun?

Thanks

Watson

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Author Topic: British Provincial Gun Makers (Read 13802 times)

Arnie Dowd

doug

Arnie Dowd

Watson123

Watson123

Watson123

Watson123