25 Cal

[cahil_2]

My brother has a 25 Cal flinter with a Hoyt barrel.  He shoots a .250 ball.  He has been having trouble with flyers.  Do any of you shoot a 25 and what load do you shoot as well as patch thickness and ball size.  He is getting frustrated  and could use some help.

[SCLoyalist]

This may not be much help, since I don't shoot a .25 cal (and I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but if you'll do a site  search on "25" or "25 cal" you'll find some threads where loads are talked about.


Good luck.  SCL

[billd]

I was having the same problem with my .25 Rayle barrel.   When I started cutting the patched at the muzzle the problem went away.  I feel the ball is so light that an uncentered patch would be slightly wrapped around the ball when it exits the muzzle it could be deflected.  Make sense??

I shoot #4 Hornady Buckshot, pillow ticking and Shenandoah lube.  For powder I use a 44 magnum case that has been shortened about 1/8". I forget how much it holds. The gun isn't fussy with powder charges.  15 to 25 grains.

Hope this helps,
Bill

[Kermit]

My Rayle .25 seems to like #4 buck and pillow ticking, cut at the muzzle, over 20 grains of FFFg Goex.

[cahil_2]

The cutting at the muzzle makes sense and I will pass that on to him, because the flyers are very inconsistent.  Thanks

[northmn]

My 25 Rayl is a bit touchy also.  For that small of a bore I made a loading funnel out of a 22-250 case to avoid spilling when loading (I just cut the base off of the case to make a funnel) It also fouled less with Graff's 3f than with GOEX and seemed to be more accurate.  I cut at the muzzle mostly so cannot comment on precuts.  It was also a bit finicky on charge and liked at least 20 grains.  I also measure out of a small pistol measure and calibrated my measure to a scale such that when I say 20 grains it was measureed against my powder scale.  The measure is actually set between 20-25 grains.  FYI  Out of my 36 inch barrel that gets about 1680 fps with a #3 buck (.25) ball.  They are efficient squirrel guns.

DP

[ERH]

Me and my dad both have Hoyt 25 cal it shots very well but it takes a weired load it shoots a 256 ball 15 grain of 3 f Swiss and 10 ths patch .The reamer that bobby uses is realy 257 thats y that load works well. The mold are hard to find i ordered one from England was not real happy with it . lee also made one years ago wish i could find one no luck yet. If u would like a few balls to see if they shoot for u i will send u a couple. but i can tell u they are very fun to shoot and we have a ball hunting squirrels with them.

[Daryl]

.010" patches A - hmmm must load easily for the first one or two?

[ERH]

loads well and i can shoot it all day long and never clean. i do use wonder lube patch lube. and swiss is clean burning powder

[Daryl]

Well, that's great!  Not the norm for people who use a .010" patch.  Do you know what the bore size is? Considering you're using what appears to be an over size, .256" ball and a .010" patch, the combination itself runs .276" groove to groove.  Is the ball larger than the actual bore size?

Normally, .010" patches don't seal anything.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Daryl, my Ed Rayle .25 cal barrel is .255" bore...don't know how deep the rifling is though.

[ERH]

top of the lands are 257th with about 8 to 10ths deep rifling  I think the 10ths patch works well because u dint get patch deflection with that small ball. Don't really know  but do know it works

[northmn]

I used the #3 buckshot in my Rayle because a 1/4 inch rod would drop through it.  I suppose technically they are a 26 by ML designation.  An 015 patch works very well in mine using Bore butter as a lube (when its gone it may not get replaced)  Your load of Swiss kind of parralels my use of Grafs as the Graf's burns cleaner than the GOEX 3f and permits more shots without cleaning.  While 20 grains of GOEX gave about 1750 over the chronograph, I felt the cleaner burning characteristics of Grafs was more important as the squirrels would not know the difference.  I did play with 4f for a bit but it was self priming and I wanted to keep what I had left for primer.
I got my buckshot through Track of the Wolf as they advertised it as pure lead. Some sources that sell it sell the antimony hardened stuff.  Still you get a lot of shots out of a 5 lb box and I would not want to cast for that.  I have not really had a chance to wring it out to see the most accurate load as my 20 grain load gets game at the range I can hit them.  Also I suspect the most accurate load in a 1-48 twist may tend to foul more as typical of small bores.  Should really play with 4f as I think that may have potential.


DP

[Daryl]

Thanks for the reminder on the size, Taylor, I recall now - about the 'large' sizing by Rayle to allow the use of a .250" rod.  Tks for the measure on the Hoyt barrel, ERH.  Have you measured the rate of twist?

Dave, I suspect one might have to use a caplock to allow the use 4f as a main charge in a .25.  While it might blow powder up into the nipple when shoving the ball down, it might not be enough to slow ignition? I'd merely use 3F and be happy.

Both my .32 and .40 have 48" twists and they don't foul at all.  I only shoot 35gr. to 40gr. 3F in the .32, but the .40 gets 653F to 75gr. 2f depending on circumstances, yet neither build up fouling with water based or the oil based lubes I use.

 

[ERH]

i don't remember rate  of twist.  i will get back to u with that

[blunderbuss]

I have a .25 flinter ,for a bullet block I use  a wood bit with the same OD of the barrel and drill half way through a 1/2 in board, the point on the wood bit will center the hole which has to be further drilled out with a 1/4 th bit. then patch the balls and make lots of these little bullet blocks.For a starter rod I took a 1/4 in brass rod about 4'' long and fixed a drawer pull to it makes loading alot easier. I cut a jag into a 1/4 in brass rod for loading I had to reduce the diameter of the brass rod some It came with a wooden rod which soon broke

[Gene Carrell]

Our  experience with a 25cal has clearly shown (to  us) that load must be tight  and patches must be  cut at the muzzle for  any consistancy. Small calibers are fun, but do not tolerate any sloppiness. IMHO.

[blunderbuss]

The point of using a wood bit on the blocks (as stated above) is that the outside diameter of the wood bit hole fits over the OD of the barrel and holds the block there while you use the starter. That way you don't have to mess with cutting the patch at the muzzle which is kinda tricky with that small of a ball

[Daryl]

I hear you. Gene. The smaller the calibre, the more exact and deliberately consistant every aspect of loading (and shooting) must be.

[BrownBear]

That way you don't have to mess with cutting the patch at the muzzle which is kinda tricky with that small of a ball

Agreed.  Handling small balls and patches in cold weather stinks.  You've got your choice between cold hands or gloves, and in either case you sure spread a lot of balls into the grass and brush at your feet.

But I "cut at the muzzle" when filling my loading blocks.  Gives a nice clean top side on the board, with no stray patching sticking up to snag and dislodge balls during carry.  I also seat my balls to stick out slightly below the block for ease of centering on the bore.  No need to counterbore the bottom of the block when you do that.  One more detail, long as I'm blabbing:  I thin my boards to the same thickness as ball diameter.  When you seat the ball just below the top side for cutting the patch, that leaves just the right amount of ball sticking out the bottom for centering the bore.

[northmn]

Our  experience with a 25cal has clearly shown (to  us) that load must be tight  and patches must be  cut at the muzzle for  any consistancy. Small calibers are fun, but do not tolerate any sloppiness. IMHO.

Another point is in the type of powder measure used.  I use a "pistol"  measure callibrated to 20 grains from a powder scale.  More to the point, a smaller diameter measure will give less variation than the typical 120 grain adjustable scale used.  One is better using something made with a hole a little smaller such as a 357 case or a homemade measure in that nature.  I use the funnel I mentioned (a cut off 22 CF case) to avoid spilling all over the muzzle for that reason.  I cut at the muzzle.

DP

[Glenn]

Sounds like a .25 caliber might be fun when it comes to rabbits and squirrels and maybe even larger fowl.

Anyone try 4-F for a main charge?  I'm wondering if that would be too small a powder grain for that small of a bore?

[blunderbuss]

Funny story about hunting with a .25 flintlock
A girl invited me to a Friend of hers place to squirrel hunt Her friend told me to bring my squirrel gun but had no idea  of my definition of squirrel gun. I put my .25 in the trunk and when we arrived the fellow ask if I brought my rifle .When I showed it to him he ask if I thought I could hit a squirrel with that? Looking a little doubtful. I think so I said.Well I was expecting to be walking around in the woods but he had a different idea so we put out some lawn chairs in the back yard and he opened a couple of beers. Directly a squirrel appeared in a tall Oak not far from us. I could only see a little fur in the fork of the tree and wasn't real sure what part of the squirrel it was.The tree was so high that I couldn't throw a stick or rock that high to move him (and I didn't have a bagel) so I elected to shoot at the little part I could see in order to chase the squirrel out of his hiding place and I could reload and get a better shot. I fired and to my utter amazement the squirrel lurched forward and landed dead at my feet shot right through the heart.
 Part of being a good shot is not acting supprized when you make a one in a million shot,so I acted like it happened every day and picked up the squirrel "Where did you get him the guy ask?" Oh I shoot them through the heart as to not mess up the meat I replied. All the time thinking to myself "How the $#*! did you make that shot" Later I shot another one that one was running away from me on a descending limb .When I shot the squirrel was running away but when I recovered the squirrel he too was shot through the heart.(I have no idea how) The third squirrel was shot straight over head you guessed it through the heart. Finally the guy ask "Where 'd you get that gun?

[Glenn]

The tree was so high that I couldn't throw a stick or rock that high to move him (and I didn't have a bagel) ...

R O F L M A O !!!   

[northmn]

Sounds like a .25 caliber might be fun when it comes to rabbits and squirrels and maybe even larger fowl.
Anyone try 4-F for a main charge?  I'm wondering if that would be too small a powder grain for that small of a bore?

Mine is a flintlock and 4f tended to be self priming.  I could stick a toothpick in the vent and load.  It would not prime after being loaded as the loads tend to pack, but 3f is just handier.  Personally I think Swiss 3f would be the best for a flintlock, but do not have the need to order any at this time.  Graf's seems to foul less. 

DP