"Washboard" effect or look on some Curly Maple stocks

[eagle24]

What contributes to or causes the washboard condition that you can see and feel on some curly maple gunstocks?  It is quite common on many original rifles, but I have also seen it on some contemporary rifles as well.  Can't remember if they were rifles that had been built several years ago or not.  I know one in particular was built in the early 80's.  Is it the result of scraping rather than sanding?  use of aqua fortis?  wear difference between hard and soft wood?

[LynnC]

I think you have it - Scraping

I tried scraping on curly walnut and got some of that effect even when I tried to cross the curl at an angle.  I Still have much to learn about the scrape method.....................Lynn

[Jim Kibler]

Scraping can certainly be a cause, but so is differential shrinkage.  I have sanded some heavily curled wood and in time it has slowly developed a rippled texture.

[billd]

Wet sanding with tung oil or similar finishes to fill the pores will cause this.  The softer wood between the curls swells more than the harder wood then shrinks back.   I've done this both intentionally and unintentionally.  More often the later.

Bill

[rich pierce]

Boning or burnishing will magnify this effect as the burnishing seems to compress the "innies" more than the "outies".

[Acer Saccharum]

if you make the stock out of wood that's not fully seasoned it will continue to dry, making the washboard more pronounced. How do I know? 

[draken]

I can't remember exactly what year it was, but the stock of the Frank House rifle given way at that year's Woodbury Rifle Frolic was finished the old-fashioned way; scraped, not sanded. and  You could definitely feel the curl.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I have never used the scraping technique. But some of my rifles have developed a washboard surface, and after not to long a time a year or two. I agree with the shrinkage theory.

[eagle24]

Thanks for the replies all.  I was just curious if this is something that occurs over time or if there was something in the finishing process that causes it.  Sounds like it may be a combination of things including time.  I noticed it on a Hershel House rifle that was built in the 80's (I think).  It was an awesome rifle and the washboard effect the stock had taken on looked right at home.

[Stophel]

I scrape stocks, but never get the washboard. That's because I angle the scraper so that it crosses over the curl, not following it.  I think the washboard on old guns is from shrinkage/wear, not from scraping.   

[Dphariss]

Wood shrinkage is another factor that cannot be overlooked. In new construction or the rifles of the past.
A lot of the wood we get is not yet dry enough much less stable

Dan

[54Bucks]

 No doubt there are many factors that can contribute to the degree of a "washboard effect". I still think burnishing and to a lesser degree scraping compresses the lighter curl at a different rate than the dark curl. Which simply compressing the softer wood more so that the harder wood.

[Jim Kibler]

A couple things about curl...  It's not that curl varies in hardness, rather it varies in grain orientation.  Think about a washboard profile.  This is the grain direction in curly wood.  When a plane or surface is created, it cuts through some of the peaks.  Some areas are therefore long grain and some areas approach end grain.  This is what creates the striped appearance.  So it's not that some areas are harder, rather it's that the grain is in a different orientation.  In the case of a scraper, the long grain areas cut slower than other areas.  Essentially the scraper follows the grain profile.  This creates a washboard effect.   

[54Bucks]

Yes and when you scrape or burnish in the same direction that "grain orientation" will react differently. Try it on a scrap of curly maple using a short pc. or hickory ramrod. Make sure the ends are smooth. The more pressure you apply, the heavier the effect.

[Jim Kibler]

Burnishing certainly compresses the grain differing amounts based on grain orientation, but scraping with a sharp scraper shouldn't compress the grain all that much.  It's more a matter of wood removal.  If dull, it could act more as a burnisher.

[Pete G.]

I have a Jacob Fordney combination gun that exhibits this effect. The difference in the "washboard" approaches the level of some carving I have seen on other pieces, perhaps 1/32". It is uniform throughout the length and very pronounced. The curl is about 6 or 8 to the inch, so the stock would be considered highly figured. This particular piece has a multiple piercing and finely engraved iron patchbox (on a percussion piece no less).  This was a high quality piece from the start, and I can't imagine it being delivered initially with this effect on the finish. Additionally, all the inleting and fittings are still tight and fit as they should, so the wood hasn't had any appreciable shrinkage. I have always wondered if perhaps the aqua fortis stain could have had some effect over a period of time, perhaps attacking the softer part of the curl?

[Dphariss]

In examining old guns we need to consider many factors.
For example improper use of a scraper or burnisher can quickly produce wash boarding.
But then we have to ask "who did the burnishing?"
Was this done by the maker or was it done by some subsequent owner who learned to do this in the military and wanted to shine up a dull hunting gun? A spoon could be used to put a little more shine on a 1903 Springfield stock, or a rifle musket or ANY piece of wood.
I doubt this was entirely a 20th century practice.
Then, using the Fordney as an example, we should as: Why don't ALL Fordney's show wash boarding?
Did an apprentice do this and get his butt kicked or was at least chastised?
Unresolved questions.
I am fairly confident that burnishing is part of the problem, perhaps ALL in some/most cases. But I also know that wood shrinks so this can be a problem as well.
I guess my point is that the current condition of an antique firearm should not be taken as being its looking this way when it was new from the shop.
I guess part of my skepticism is thinking a maker of  J. Fordney's skill could not finish a stock without wash boarding it makes no sense to me. He seems to have had high standards for his time.


Dan

[Jim Kibler]

Dan,

Many consider "washboarding" do be a desireable feature.  So in this case it didn't come from "improper" use of a scraper or burnisher.  I realize this is a personal preference and I would speculate that any washboarding on original guns was a consequence of materials and production techniques rather than a feature that was desired or sought after. 

On some  highly figured wood its quite difficult to avoid this all together.  You can of course bridge teh figure while scraping and burnishing, but sometimes the shape of the stock makes this difficult.  So my take is that with some wood and extensive use of a scraper in a workmanlike manner, some washbarding is going to be a consequence. 

From a modern personal perspective, I often find surface texture such as that being discussed to be appealing.  A surface with some texture is a bit more complex and seems to create more visual interest for me.  Now don't get me wrong, I've made more guns finished flat and smooth than otherwise, but I do beleive that a textured surface showing some tool marks can be appealing.  The key to this in my view is recoginizing that these tool marks are a consequence of tools and speed of work, rather than a desirable feature.  Some work I've seen today seems to have marks that appear heavy, very deliberate and calculated rather than a consequence of working methods.  From the view of toolmarks being a consequence, a perfect surface is the goal.  It's the goal, but materials, tools and time constraints make this unobtainable.  If tool marks are deliberatly indluded the results tend to be different in my view.

Jim 

[Pete G.]

Then, using the Fordney as an example, we should as: Why don't ALL Fordney's show wash boarding?
Did an apprentice do this and get his butt kicked or was at least chastised?
Unresolved questions.
I guess part of my skepticism is thinking a maker of  J. Fordney's skill could not finish a stock without wash boarding it makes no sense to me. He seems to have had high standards for his time.


Dan

That is the problem I have had with it. This is not the style gun an apprentice would be working on, and I know the history of the piece. It is built in the style of the 1880's and was purchased by my grandfather's grandfather and has been in the family ever since. There is very little evidence of shrinkage(around the butt plate and patchbox for instance), and though the checkering at the wrist is worn on both sides, one side exhibits this effect to some extent, while the other side less so. Perhaps the wear from handling not only wore down the checkering, but also the softer parts of the grain in the wood ? If that were the case though, I would expect to see this only where the piece is normally handled. I have often wondered if the piece were wiped down with a gun oil if that would tend to deteriorate the softer areas? We can never answer this, of course, but some plausible causes might help to narrow down the answers. Thanks for your thoughts.

Incidentally, one of the last times this gun was fired was by my grandfather, who told me that his father had to hold the gun for him and it made so much smoke that he had to drop to his hands and knees to look under the smoke to see if he had hit the rabbit. This would have been about 1905 or so.

[Curt J]

I have a friend who is a builder (second to none...I might add!) who goes out of his way to achieve this effect.  After studying literally hundreds of originals, he concluded that this was one detail that sets them apart from most contemporary rifles. He handed me a rifle that he recently finished, that has been done this way, and it does indeed look like someone just brought it here in a time-machine....from 1790!

[JTR]

Well, you do see this a lot on originals. Also, probably about half the time the washboarding is more pronounced, or only seen, on one side of the stock or the other. Sometimes you see it on the forearm, but not on the butt end, or viseversa. I think it is caused by shrinkage, as well as whether the lumber was cut more toward quarter sawn or plank sawn.
It wouldn't be difficult to figure out; just remove the butt plate on a bunch of old guns and compare the grain orientation.
John  

[Jim Kibler]

Whatever the cause of the rippled surface being discussed, it will be most pronounced on whatever surface has the most dramatic curl, or in other words whichever surface has the grain varying in direction relative to the suface the greatest.  This will nearly always be in the quartersawn direction.  Sometimes it will be in the slab sawn direction as well as the quarter sawn, but it will almost always be more dramatic on the quarter sawn side.

[smshea]

Just an observation.
 Outside my shop door is the all fall from three stock blanks that were cut from a plank of 'Ridiculously' curly red maple. It has been out there for like two years....maybe more. I still have access to one of the rifles built from the blanks and it shows little to no evidence of washboarding. The all fall on the other hand, looks like a roller coaster on the cuts and is very wavy on the flats as well .You can see it as well as feel it. It was not like that over the winter and it has been extremely wet here of late  so I'm sure humidity has something to do with what I'm seeing on the all fall. Again, the rifle shows no signs of this. The plank was seemingly very dry, the guy who owned the barn that it came out of said it had been there since Carter was President and the tree came down during hurricane bell. I have other pieces out there that are not doing this
Again just making an observation. 

Also as a side note, A close friend of mine owns a well known custom kitchen cabinet shop here in Central pa. They work mostly in Oak and Cherry for their finished cabinets but all of their painted and distressed cabinets are maple. They discard any maple with signs of curl because they cant predict wether it will quilt under the paint, and no one wants a quilted cabinet door. I have scored some beautiful pieces of wood from them that were going to be ground up and burned, Nothing usuable for guns but very nice.
Again, just food forthought.

[blunderbuss]

The wash board effect I think is caused by the wood drying out. For example if the rifle is stored in an air conditioned or heated place the soft wood will shrink more than the hard. I repaired one a while back by applying water  little at a time.

[Stophel]

In one of the picture books, there is a rifle (I believe by Stophel Smith???) that is HEAVILY worn, and heavily washboarded.  I can pretty well bet that the surface of that stock was not like that when it was brand new.