Author Topic: ALR Museum Gunsmith: Unknown  (Read 6189 times)

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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ALR Museum Gunsmith: Unknown
« on: May 29, 2011, 08:59:13 PM »
As you will read below, this gun is hotly disputed as to it maker and other issues. The Commentary is instructive. Some thought the gun may have been made by H. Dimick and perhaps while he was in Kentucky.


Here is the URL:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=16556.0

Post your comments as a reply here:


The Museum Committee
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 03:55:48 AM by Hurricane ( of Virginia) »

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 11:36:40 PM »
Y'all have me shaking my head here.  Why is this gun being put in the library
as an H. Dimick, when the expert on Dimick (Don Stith) has withdrawn his attribution and say's it's not a Dimick and the signature clearly ends in ISH not ICK and likely is not preceded by DIM?  And the first letter is an A to boot.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 11:38:04 PM by suzkat »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline nord

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 12:08:04 AM »
As best we can tell the signature is one of the versions we might expect on a Dimick. Obviously it's defaced enough be questionable but it was good enough to fool at least one of us if not correct.

As to the rest of the exhibit we make it VERY clear that there is a highly probable case to be made that the gun isn't a Dimmick (Dimick).. At least not in total. 

The gun was placed because it allows us to learn, to observe, and to question. In other words there are things about it that are correct and other things that may well not be so.

I believe the gun is not misrepresented as we point out that its origin is in question.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline louieparker

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 01:48:50 AM »
I think Suzkat has said what needed to be said ..I don't see anyting in the name nor gun that makes me think H.E. Dimick ...Louie parker

Offline jdm

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 06:30:43 AM »
Here is a rare entry to the ALR Museum, a gunsmith from Lexington, KY....H. Dimick   

   Maybe if you  took H.  Dimick out of the lead in it would make more sense.  JIM
JIM

Offline nord

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 04:22:49 PM »
So far the comments have said it all. The gun was presented to its owner as a Dimick (Dimmick), it was presented to a gentleman for an "expert" opinion and declared a Dimick, and was then presented to us.

Without going into minute detail I contacted the owner and questioned the gun immediately. Though I have no proof that the gun is anything other than initially represented, I believe otherwise. This doesn't make the entry spurious nor dishonest as the owner is looking for truth. Otherwise it would have been withdrawn.

It seems that the general consensus is that the gun is most probably not a Dimick. (At least in total.) I have no opinion about the signature as I have no reference to base it upon. The best I can say is... It is what it is. And so we have a gun honestly attributed to Dimick, then the attribution withdrawn, and finally the opinion of a majority here that all is not correct as far as the gun being original and right.

As to Library status I'm of the opinion that the gun should stay. It gives us all the incentive to dig just a bit deeper and to comment honestly. Many here would do well to learn from this little rifle.

I have no doubt that the rifle is totally correct as far as being in period. I see no attempt to embellish nor to hide its history. Perhaps we'll one day find the signature to be of a different hand than presently attributed. Perhaps the rifle is a compilation of older components remounted on a new stock. On these things I can only speculate.

The important thing to me is that this little rifle seems to have survived a century and a half with little overall change. It was obviously valued by its owner(s) and evidence points to a series of repairs and modifications during its working life.

One of my deepest regrets goes back to the beginning of this project where an owner withdrew a nice southern rifle because of the comments received. Many were critical on the basis of originality and attribution to a particular maker. On the whole our comments were correct, but we lost sight of the history and obvious importance of that rifle to the families it served over decades.

Perhaps that little rifle has more value than the pristine highly decorated safe queen we take to a show once or twice a year... At least from a historical standpoint.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2011, 05:47:15 PM »
Nord,  I hope my comment was not interpreted as implying that the rifle was not deserving of inclusion in the library.  I definitely think it should be included.  My
belief was that it should be listed as maker unknown for 2 reasons.  One is that
it will prompt assistance from others in making a correct attribution.  The other is that if it is not in fact a Dimick, we don't want others with rifles like it to follow
thinking theirs is a Dimick and multiply the error.  In conclusion, it's a great signed rifle and deserving of further research. 
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2011, 06:21:59 PM »
Hello to the Museum Staff.  Thank you for all your efforts.  What a great resource you have built.

Lexington, Ky is my hometown so I am curious about the statement in the initial post of this thread that this gun was made in Lexington.  Is this based on the now questioned attribution to Horace Dimick or is there some other evidence to indicate it was made in Lexington?  Perhaps markings on the lock?  Thanks.

-Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline nord

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2011, 06:50:51 PM »
Ron,

I believe it might be more correct to state that Dimick made guns in Lexington. Whether this example is among those made in Lexington or even by Dimick is the subject of speculation at this time.

The best hope right now is a positive ID on the signature. This, along with an intact rifle unquestionably by Dimick, would be a huge help in determining exactly what we have here.

Right now... Attributed. I suspect we'll learn more.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline Buck

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 08:50:16 PM »
Nord,
I am in agreement with suzcat. It is not a Dimick as we have come to agree on. The lock is made by a T. Davidson. This Gentleman was a lock maker in Kentucy according to Sellers. I think that being said, mobility was obviously not the same then as it is today. With that I think it would properly be stated: Rifle most likely of Kentucky origin, maker open for discussion please offer opinions with constructive intent. Nord I appreciate all of the insight, Yourself and Hurricane are a fine pair of Gentlemen, along with the other Gentlemen that had constructive advice. Thankyou all.
Buck   

Offline Buck

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2011, 09:37:01 PM »
Nord,
I would like to make an ammendment to my prior statement in regards to T Davidson." Tyler Davidson, Cincinatti Ohio 1834-1866 locks only."I confused this rifle with another rifle from my collection. My apologies. 

Offline JTR

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 12:48:38 AM »
I agree with the others, and the owner on this one. (and probably should have said so eariler)
I think a fitting title for this rifle would be; An unknown maker with an Ohio maker marked lock.
John
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Offline Buck

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: H. Dimick....Lexington, KY
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 02:25:07 AM »
JTR,
Thanks.
Buck

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: ALR Museum Gunsmith: Unknown
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 03:57:06 AM »
The intro has been changed. The discussion appreciated......please continue.
Hurricane