TVM "Tennessee" Rifle

[HardBall]

G'day,

I'm in the que with TVM  (the Mississippi folk), for their Tennessee rifle.  I requested it poor-boy style in caplock with plain maple and iron furniture, buttplate - but no toe plate, side plate - but no entry ferrel or patchbox and a straight 7/8 x 42" in .45cal.

I wanted to stick with the theme of a long, heavy, plain looking rifle in modest caliber from about a century ago and since .40cal is not legal to hunt neither deer or small game in Louisiana I opted for .45

I don't know exactly what "plain maple" will look like but it's my understanding that rifles built, or procured, in the late 1800's to early 1900's would likely be stained dark and could have been in plain maple (or other local wood) and built in, or have been converted to, percussion.  Is this reasonably correct?

I'm not trying to be strictly PC but I do want to be fairly close to the rifles that I've seen from this period/area.

My father has an old/antique halfstock ML rifle in .44cal with a thick 1-1/16" barrel around 35" in length.  I know how heavy his rifle is but I don't know if the rifle I have on order will be of similar weight?

Since my rifle will be some 7" longer, I assume it will feel more nose heavy than my fathers?

Thanks,

Sean


 

[dannylj]

Sean, your rifle will be fine. It will weigh about 3 1/2 lbs. less than your Dad's. Your correct that there is a .44 minimum for deer hunting but a .45 will work fine if you are careful with your shots. I have killed several with my .45 flint mountain rifle. TVM rifles are fine guns. Enjoy it and start working towards that flintlock. You will love it.  Danny

[Standing Bear]

I have 7/8 barrel 42" long in .40 cal.  The balance point is just ahead of the entry thimble - I also have a toe plate - which gives it a nice hang or nose heavy feel.  I haven't converted it to per-suction yet.

Bet you will enjoy your new partner.
TC

[roundball]

For what its worth, one of the Flintlocks I got had a straight GM 42" x 7/8" x .45cal barrel on it and found it to be too terribly nose heavy...and far too heavy to even think about still hunting with...finally had Ed Rayl bore it out to a .50cal with round bottom grooves to lighten it some.

[The Original Griz]

Roundball, How do you like the round bottom grooves? I hear they are much nicer for cleaning, can you tell any difference.

[Daryl]

Sean - if of average strength, I think you will find that rifle to hold splendidly for accurate offhand shots. 7/8X42" in .45 is my current favorite 'shooting' rifle - for up to 80 shots a day.  It's other barrel was a .40 cal. and it was even better for trail walks (all offhand shooting) due to being more muzzle heavy.

You should have no problem accurately shooting that rifle. Mine, with a GM barrel, 60" twist, .445" patched ball and .022" denim patch liked 75gr. 3F GOEX with an oil lubed patch.  The chronogrpahed velcoity was over 2,100fps and it shot into 1/2" at 50 yards off a single sand bag rest for 5 shot groups.

Obviously my opinion differs from RB opinion as I find it about perfect for a hunting rifle in weight and hold, lighter than the .40 barrel but not so light as to reduce offhand accuracy too much.

[HardBall]

Thanks for the responses, this is encouraging.

Daryl, I've been reading your posts on using one's thumb and emery cloth to smooth the sharp edges of the lands at the muzzle.  After doing this do you re-brown the crown or just let it naturally patina?


Sean,

[G-Man]

There should be no browning of the crown or any area inside of the bore - actually - not even the flat face of the muzzle.  That surface will tarnish up fine on its own over time.  

Your choice sounds great for the era you are interested in - I have seen lots of late percussion iron mounted rifles - no buttplates, etc.-  from the late 1800s, in both straight and swamped barrels, and in either case they tend to be muzzle-heavy pieces - moreso even than what you will find in your 7/8 .45 caliber.  I agree with Daryl that it will hold and shoot well.  Maple and walnut are both common stockwoods on these guns.  If you take a look in the virtual library, there are several antique guns in there that sound close to what you are having built.

Guy

[hanshi]

You chose well, HardBall.  I have a TVM SMR in .36 with a 3/4"x38" barrel, strictly for squirrels & such.  The stock should be dark with a bit of figure showing.  Your rifle will be a fantastic off-hand rifle.  I would have specified a 13/16" barrel, myself, and I have a .45 with such a barrel.

[HardBall]

There should be no browning of the crown or any area inside of the bore - actually - not even the flat face of the muzzle.  That surface will tarnish up fine on its own over time.  

Great, that will make things all the more simple.

[bgf]

A friend has a 7/8"x42" .45 cal. and if anything it is lighter than I like but it shoots well, so you see the response to that barrel is subjective to some extent.  7/8" .50 cal is about a half a pound lighter, but my opinion is that the .45 will be just fine, and I think the 1:60 twist on the GM .45's makes a little more sense than the 1:70 on the .50's, esp. if you want to use lighter loads for plinking, close targets, small game, etc.  It will not be as heavy as your father's rifle, but the balance may be close due to the length difference.  7/8" looks good to me on the TN style rifles, thick enough for that design through the wrist and thin enough to keep the fore end tolerably slim with a 42" barrel.  Originals with straight barrels often have 1"+ (often ++) barrels in smaller calibers that are longer, but the people in those days worked a lot harder than we do, so they didn't complain as much about a few pounds .

One thing that will make a big difference is to make sure you get a realistic length of pull -- if you make it too long, even a relatively light barrel will be intolerable.  With a TN style (assuming it has a bit of drop and you shoot it off your arm), you can tolerate a little longer LOP than some other types, but don't go overboard.  It is much easier to deal with a short LOP than a long one if the barrel is even a hint muzzle heavy.  If possible, try somebody's similar one.

[HardBall]

One thing that will make a big difference is to make sure you get a realistic length of pull -- if you make it too long, even a relatively light barrel will be intolerable.  With a TN style (assuming it has a bit of drop and you shoot it off your arm), you can tolerate a little longer LOP than some other types, but don't go overboard.  It is much easier to deal with a short LOP than a long one if the barrel is even a hint muzzle heavy.  If possible, try somebody's similar one.

I was a little unsure of what LOP to specify.  The best I can measure, I get between 14" and 13-3/4" depending on what one considers appropriate bend in their trigger finger.  I own/have owned rifles with LOP's that range from 12-3/4" to 14" and the Weatherby stocks with what is supposed to be 13-3/4" to 14" LOP always fit best.  My shotguns with 14" LOP feel fine as well- not too long.  However, I'm not sure with long barreled ML rifles?

Also, I don't know exactly what "off the arm" means?  Does this mean the butt plate would be on the shoulder of my arm?  As in not in the pocket between shoulder and chest?

[bgf]

Yes, not like a shotgun (or heavy recoiling rifle with flat buttplate), i.e. not in the pocket or crease, but somewhere on or past the middle of the shoulder joint, so that the hook of the crescent fits into the armpit or under the arm.  It sounds like 133/4" or 14" might work for you as a starting point, if the buttplate is not so sharply curved that it has to go too far down your arm.  Just guessing, probably 133/4 is the safest approach, but you might be fine with 14 or even more.  I bet if you talk to TVM about that style (including what buttplate, drop, etc.) and your dimensions and shooting style, they can give you some guidance about what is workable for most people, and you don't have to get it "perfect", just not too far out of whack.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Hardball
Off the arm is just that off the arm (bicep) not shoulder. The very curved butplates are designed to be shot off arm they will fit better.  the flatter buttplates are shoulder mounted.

[HardBall]

I tried Googling' various derivations of "shooting off the arm" but the hits returned were of a more graphic nature than I was looking for.  Nevertheless, I think I follow you guys; off the arm - not in the shoulder pocket, which obviously won't work well with a crescent butt- I understand now.

[Daryl]

Like Guy said - the muzzle will colour itself, in time.