muzzle coning

[david50]

not trying to put Mr. Wood out of buisness or anything but has anyone coned a barrel anyway other than with a ready-made tool.

[David Veith]

Made my own work up off the Ideas frome a old Muzzel Blast.
David Veith

[david50]

could you give some details

[fm tim]

Peter Alexander shows his process in his video series.  He uses a tool that he bought.

[omark]

i have carefully used a dremel and needle files and the rifles shoot better than i can. i also used a hardwood dowel and tapered it in a lathe. then used double sided tape to hold sandpaper.

[cal.43]

did you mean this with coned muzzle
or did you asked for a crowned one?
the muzzle above was altered with a  round corundgrinder and finished with a ball &  valve grindig paste.

[Jim Filipski]

Or do you me deep with fancy treatment:


for a  good job you need a good tool.
If you don't own a lath see Joe Wood .... centering during the cutting is very important.
The article that Alexander did was also based on a well made tool. The cone depth is secondary to the symmetry of the cone. The fancy stuff is then just "Fluff".

Jim

[longcruise]

I made a set of three tools to recrown my GM and spanish/italian barrels.  All of those barrels tended to tear up patches on loading.

I apply all three of these to the muzzle in no particular order with sandpaper attached with double sided tape.  The two nuts locked together form a fit to a .50 cal and by wrapping tape around the nuts they can be fitted to a .54.

I use these by hand, not with a drill or any other power tool.  They are not perfectly concentric but by working the tool back and forth in the muzzle and rotating the barrel frequently, the end product is concentric.  I've done this to a .50 and .54 so far with no harm to accuracy,  easier loading and improved patch survival.

[david50]

looks more complicated than i have the talent to attempt. by the way JWFilipski thats really nice, did you do it yourself

[Jim Filipski]

David
It's not complicated when using a coning tool & takes about 1 hr or so to get to that stage including the fancy filing.
That's one of a brace of Jaegers ( note flush muzzle caps) I did this past summer for some members of a German Jaeger reenacting group.
Jim

[longcruise]

If I can do it, it's automatically not complicated!!

Just drill a hole as close to center as possible, cut the head off a 1/4 or 5/32 bolt, glue it in the hole with JB weld, put a circle on the wood dowell that will acheive the desired angle, chuck the bolt into your hand drill and turn it down up against the rotating drum in the drill press.

These are more for crowning than coning but making one with a steeper angle would get you closer to coning.

[davec2]

Coning tools I made a while back.  One is designed after the Peter Alexander article.  The other (top one in the photo), of a more modern design worked much, much better.

[david50]

interesting! in the photos that have been posted it does'nt look as though the coning goes that deep into the muzzle. i thought it would be deeper,maybe half the diamiter of the ball.

[Jim Filipski]

David The coning tools I use are for a gentle taper to about 2" to 3" deep. It is a gentle taper not steep by any means. When you start the ball in by thumb pressure you just follow with the ramrod and the patch /ball combo compresses slowly into the bore. Very nice...... even with tight patch ball combos
Jim

[T*O*F]

Why doesn't someone put together a tutorial of all the ways to cone a muzzle?  This topic is discussed at least as much and often as patch lubes.

[david50]

i'd sure like to see one on the subject

[northwoodsdave]

A tutorial would be a good idea.  While some have the idea that coning is a 30 or 40 degree "lip" at the beginning of the muzzle, the coning I want is much deeper, well over an inch.  It creates an easier pressure fit of a ball, thus getting rid of the need for a short starter.

It also has quite a history:  I have found several antique rifles with this deep coning, which perhaps explains why short starters are seldom referred to in old books.

I just took the easy way out and ordered a set from Joe Wood.  I'd be glad to post results when they arrive and I get some time to play with them.

David L

[Birddog6]

I have never made a coning tool to cone a barrel.  Never had the lathe to make it til recently & now have all the calibers to com=ne a multitude of them, so just use one of Joe Woods tools. 

Takes me about 2 to 3  hrs to do a coned muzzle from start to finsh with one of Joe's coning tools.  About half of that time is making the lil pads & putting the double sided tape on them & etc.  If ya push it too hard the paper tears & then the glue gets all wadded up & it takes longer to clean the glue off the tool than to cone th muzzle.  Also I start with 220 & get it most of the way done, then go to 320, then 600, and finish with 1000 paper.  Maybe I put more time into it than some, but they come out nice & slick as a whistle & and are coned about 3" down.  You can easily push a greased patched roundball into one past what your thumb will push it & start it with a rod rather than a short starter.........  IF  ...........  you are using a extremely tight combo.  If I am shooting target for groups, I use a tighter ball/patch combo & still use a sshort starter.  But for deer hunting & 1'5" groups at 50 yards, the smaller ball loads fine & easily & does the job on the deer.
 

[Roger Fisher]

Or do you me deep with fancy treatment:


for a  good job you need a good tool.
If you don't own a lath see Joe Wood .... centering during the cutting is very important.
The article that Alexander did was also based on a well made tool. The cone depth is secondary to the symmetry of the cone. The fancy stuff is then just "Fluff".

Jim

I shoot with a couple of guys that have file cut the 'fluff' into their rifle muzzles.  They are top notch shooters and the only drawback I noticed was that the file cuts seem to rust quickly and a lot and seems as if they do not bother to clean the rust out of the file cuts.  I think it is a nice touch and you are constantly looking at it whilst shooting the old girl!   I use a circle cutter and small dot and circle punches on to the face of the muzzle for the same reason.  Doesn't hurt the shootin!   I do not know if those fellows have coned the muzzles or not!

[t.caster]

Seems like some guys confuse crowning and coning, and use the words interchangeably. Coning is a deep taper that looks like a smoothbore at the muzzle, and crowning is a little (or a lot) 40-45 degree chamfer at the muzzle.
JWF, what you show just looks like a 1/16" crown with the fancy "Hiney" treatment filed in.
I have the same filings on my Beck and never experienced any rusting after 4 yrs. of use. Of course I use a greasy lubed patch, not liquid.

[northwoodsdave]

Caster makes a good point.  Coning is NOT crowning:  It's a much deeper and less severe taper.  The tools dave2c showed, long and narrow, are more the idea.  A good coning will extend a couple of inches into the barrel and is barely perceptible from the end of the bore.

I have a couple of the Joe Woods tools in different calibers and highly recommend them.  They make the process simple and straightforward and come with complete instructions.  You couldn't go wrong buying one, if you want to see what a "real" cone is like.

David L

[Jim Filipski]

Seems like some guys confuse crowning and coning, and use the words interchangeably. Coning is a deep taper that looks like a smoothbore at the muzzle, and crowning is a little (or a lot) 40-45 degree chamfer at the muzzle.
JWF, what you show just looks like a 1/16" crown with the fancy "Hiney" treatment filed in.
I have the same filings on my Beck and never experienced any rusting after 4 yrs. of use. Of course I use a greasy lubed patch, not liquid.

T.Caster No it does have a deep taper cone ( joe Wood's tool) but it was done on a barrel that had a wide machine crown. The coning tool was used until the lands  were even with the groves then the hiney treatment!
Jim

[Mike R]

the websites for both Rice and Colerain barrel companies state that coning voids their warranties...Seeing as how I shoot one of each [plus Getz, Green River and others], I have been retiscent to cone my bores.  I am not sure why they state that, but they do.

[Jim Filipski]

the websites for both Rice and Colerain barrel companies state that coning voids their warranties...Seeing as how I shoot one of each [plus Getz, Green River and others], I have been retiscent to cone my bores.  I am not sure why they state that, but they do.

Some just hack away to make them look weird. I have never seen a properly coned barrel ML "Ball" barrel shoot worse  ( usually Better) then a stock crown.  They are just protecting their Hineys from those few!

[bs2]

Davec2,

I too have made a tool like your top one, the only part I would change on mine is the length of the bushing. I found the you can still get "misalignment" with the shorter bushing................[2" in length would make a great pilot]..........but to hard to make.

I did two barrels with mine, they turned out OK, but,..........I prefer the big Radius as a crown. If you do it right, you get a radius and a taper.