Author Topic: Judging results from Dixon's? (Read 18546 times)

Glenn Hurley Jr. · « **on:** August 02, 2012, 01:33:10 PM »

Does anyone have the results of judging at Dixon's? Usually someone posts them along with a few pictures but I have been unable to locate them. If someone has them, could you please share? Thanks in advance.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2012, 01:54:03 PM »

I wuz wonderin" muself!

James Rogers · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2012, 02:29:02 PM »

More than likely it will have to come in bits and pieces. You would think that the Dixon's website would post the results but I have never seen that done.
I know that ALR member Phillip Smith of North Carolina won first in the fowling pieces category.

wpalongrifle · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2012, 04:10:32 PM »

Glenn, That's something I'm working on for next years fair! This year we had the lowest number of entered guns IN Fair history? Economy? With this being the 30th.year, I'm sure a new printing of the past ten years winners booklet will be printed as IN past!!! As far as i know only available for sale at the Dixon gun shop!! As of Sunday all were sold out? We got some new ideas for next years Fair and also some changes to the critique papers!!! Chuck keeps copies off all the past winners on file. I didn't get a chance this year to make copies for myself. Will do next year for sure!!!

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2012, 03:01:46 AM »

I have some pictures of the entries following ribbon awards.

mountainman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 03, 2012, 04:56:25 AM »

looks like a berks co. swivel breech rifle, that won best of show. wonder who the owner was?

ontarget · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:26:41 AM »

In 27 rifles were awarded a ribbon of a total of 33 which were entered for judging. That was the lowest number of rifles entered in recent years and might be the lowest in the 30 years of the Fair.

The one which was bast of show was a double barreled rifle (over and under) flintlock which allowed for turning the lower barrel to the upper level for firing. Don't know the technical term for this type of flintlock. I am thinking it was entered by a gunmaker from NH. It is the rifle shown in the fore ground in the photo below.

Daryl · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2012, 04:27:12 PM »

Ontarget, the post above yours written by Mountainman, noted the name for that 'double barreled rifle with one over the other', for you.

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2012, 05:00:03 PM »

Quote from: ontarget on August 03, 2012, 08:26:41 AM

In 27 rifles were awarded a ribbon of a total of 33 which were entered for judging. That was the lowest number of rifles entered in recent years and might be the lowest in the 30 years of the Fair.

The one which was bast of show was a double barreled rifle (over and under) flintlock which allowed for turning the lower barrel to the upper level for firing. Don't know the technical term for this type of flintlock. I am thinking it was entered by a gunmaker from NH. It is the rifle shown in the fore ground in the photo below.

Wender!

Long John · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2012, 05:03:16 PM »

I was there but I didn't write down who the various winners were.

I submitted my pistol, which I showed ALR under the topic of "#13 done". It was the only pistol submitted this year and it got a 3rd place. Maybe I am supposed to infer something from that; I don't know. There was nothing but checked boxes and point deductions on the critique sheet so it wasn't all that informative.

There were a number of fine rifles at the Fair that weren't submitted. Some of them have been shown on this forum. There were a lot of private critiques between an amateur builder and a noted professional maker going on under the radar. Personally, I found those critiques very helpful. Every notable maker I asked was very gracious and generous with her/his time and provided carefully considered feedback on how I could improve at this craft.

Hopefully some one who has the records will share them with the gunmaking community.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Tom Currie · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:50:00 PM »

One guideline that was changed this year was that if you had previously received any ( not just blue ) ribbon in a particular class ( apprentice , journeyman, master ) you are expected to enter into the next higher class. I suspect this is to even out the number of rifles entered in each class.

My recent Lehigh build received 2 third place ribbons in the Journeyman class. I'll have to admit I was initially a bit disappointed only because I put so much time into this. However after some retrospective thoughts and first time being judged in Journeyman class I'm OK with the result. I received my lowest " points off " total so far at 30, I understand some but others are a bit of a mystery to me ( only checkboxes no real explanantion ) so I guess I'm moving , albeit very slowly, in the right direction.

I also went down to the builders tent afterward and spent some time with the fine builders there. I asked for a hard critique and got some good feedback from the generous and supportive guys down there. Thanks

Best part was renewing acquaintances with ALR friends and meeting new ones.

Tom Currie · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2012, 01:17:26 AM »

Eric, PM sent.

billm · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2012, 06:27:47 PM »

if you have to move up a class from getting a ribbon thats kind of lame considering some people just build a gun or to a year.In my mind it should be how many guns you have built that would determine what class a person would be in.I did ok in first gun and apprentice and that would mean I would have to be in journeyman on my 2nd or third gun.I agree that the critiques were very vague with the checkboxes.I to had some very good builders look it over and give me some feedback which will be very valuable for the next build.Overall the fair was great for learning more and making some great contacts.I am fortunate that a few have offered personal instruction at their shops which i will be taking full advantage of.

wpalongrifle · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2012, 09:52:58 PM »

Billm, its my understanding and the way it will be in future fairs!!! is that you must have a first place ribbon or best contemporary or traditional to progress to next level.. anything less ie; second or third place ribbons you stay in that class!!! It should take many rifles to move up the ladder, based on your abilities and experience? as far as i know there are no set rules or requirements!! hope to change this for next year. only difference is from apprentice to master class no pre carved stocks!!! but i feel you should be rewarded for doing ALL the work on entered rifles weather your first or second or twentieth? A point structure will also be implemented to reward entrants for carving and engraving!! to make new builders try and take a risk without getting deduction points...currently we can only judge your entrant by comparison of what others enter?

billm · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2012, 01:44:54 AM »

sorry i must have misread.I thought a second or third bumped you up.Needing a first to move sounds alot more logical and less intimidating.thanks for the correction.

Tom Currie · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2012, 04:21:24 AM »

Mike Karkalla, Maybe you can clarify for me and other ALR members. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your previous post. This change surprised me so I am trying to understand reasoning behind it.

The judging table had clear postings about the change that " any previous ribbon in a class obligates you to move up to the next higher class ". No blue ribbon necessary.

I talked with the ladies at the table and they stated this was new and the reason why it was clearly posted this way so entrants would understand the change.

Thanks

wpalongrifle · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2012, 02:37:48 PM »

Mr Currie, in the past you needed a blue ribbon or first place to move up!!! The discussion last year was to use any ribbon winner? For what reason? Maybe to move more builders up into the next bracket. I dont agree!! But im only one judge!! We have always had plenty of apprentice and journeymen entries.. My personal feel is, and the way it should be changed back next year,is first place ribbons or best of class ribbon move up into next class. A second or third place doesn't warrant. Obviously anyone who feels at any time they want to enter a gun in any class they feel meets the workmanship of said class.. As I said before we can only judge your rifles and pistols against other"s entries... If a rifle wins say a second place patch box mech. Does it mean your ready for the master class?, cause you can make a good box!! But rest of gun was unengraved or not carved?? Hope make sense? A lot of the rifles entered in journeymen class were pre carved stocks! We judged only the work done by entrant and someone who did all the work was the tie breaker on a lot of the ribbons for places.. I was asked to possibly take over the judging duties in the future.. I think some changes need to be made to scoring system and how you progress to classes.. But you can enter anywhere and any class you wish? The builder should make that choice. Now if you just enter a rifle in apprentice and the judges feel its journeymen or master work we recommend entering in said class.. Not just so you can win lots of ribbons!!! We operate on the Honor system!!! We can only go by what you the builders tell us!!

Tom Currie · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2012, 03:12:53 PM »

Mike, Thanks for your reply. Quite honestly I had no problem with the expectation that you " move up" on the honor system when a Blue ribbon is rewarded for your work and expect that builders would want to do the same.

I believe we're on the same page on many of your thoughts.

I'm sure if you're looking for idea's on how judging might change to encourage builders, you will find suggestions form ALR members if asked.

Thanks for your work at Dixon's

wpalongrifle · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2012, 03:44:10 PM »

Mr Currie, your welcome and i have had a discussion with Tom Curran on this just subject!! there are a lot of knowledgeable members on this forum. we need dedicated "yearly" people to help and a few backups just in case we run short of judges!!! in the past two years we had two judges retire after 30years of service and possably one more next year!! Like myself, most who attend Dixon's each year regularly, also have tables or give seminars throughout the day. One thing i like doing the past three years has been tho have three judges, do all the guns in each class. that way they get judged equally...then the entire group makes the top choices and ribbon winners as a group consensus on sunday...Mk

B.Habermehl · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2012, 12:06:53 AM »

Under this years posted rules at the Gunmaker's fair, I will NEVER enter a gun again! I don't believe that just because I recieved a third place ribbon in the journeyman class, my skills warrent moving up to the master category. Not for a minute! I'm just not that good in my opinion. My apoligies for the rant, but this is how I see it from my side of the fence. BJH

wpalongrifle · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2012, 01:03:54 AM »

BjH, i understand your frustration!!, don't let that stop you from entering guns? i feel progress at your own pace and keep building. last year i was unaware of the discussions to make the changes to class requirements.. i will be meeting with the other judges over the winter and chuck himself to state my opinions as to how we can best benefit the public!!! really sit down and make what requirements are to be met, for progression in each class!! and put in writing!!!, as i said before, "you the builder make that choice" one ribbon here and there doest make you a better builder? many rifles under you belt and a good critique from your peers does..congrats on your ribbon...

B.Habermehl · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2012, 01:44:35 AM »

This year there was the lowest number of guns submitted for critique in any ones memory. In my opinion there will be a bunch fewer with the present rule changes.... I will admit that I was a multiple ribbon holder in the apprentice category untill my only blue ribbon came along some years ago, hence my move to journeyman. I have never built a gun with the critique in mind, all the guns that I have ever submitted were simply the project that was done at the time. Be it for me, a family member, or a client. I admire the ones that could schnitz and perfect a project for a year or more for the critique. I'm way too ADHD for that

I have been coming to the fair for over 20 years now,and Lord willing for a bunch more. In many ways it has been a "family reunion" of sorts. Good friends, fellowship, and lots to learn and share. BJH

BJ Habermehl

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2012, 01:57:45 AM »

I'd not support a rule that would reduce the number of guns entered. That's counter productive. If the cost of ribbons are too much, then just give blue ones out. Everyone stays at their level until they 'blue out' of it.

Tom

rich pierce · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2012, 02:45:30 AM »

If/when I can make it I will still enter guns to get some more pointers. Generally I get 2-3 expert makers to give me feedback one on one and find that valuable. As many have stated before, specific critique that the maker can understand and act on are the most helpful.

Regarding moving up a class, I think this is most appropriate for top placings overall as opposed to sub-categories (patchbox, whatever).

Tom Currie · « **Reply #24 on:** August 07, 2012, 03:38:56 AM »

Mr Karkalla, I would suggest that any changes in judging rules that might increase entries should be posted via Dixon's website or sites like ALR in advance of the Fair so that the word gets out.

Otherwise you find out about changes at the table, and you would have a full year lag time in the changes being effective in encouraging more to enter.

News:

Author Topic: Judging results from Dixon's? (Read 18546 times)

ontarget

Daryl

billm

billm