Author Topic: h.rupp stock pattern  (Read 12504 times)

lew wetzel

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h.rupp stock pattern
« on: December 27, 2008, 05:01:25 PM »
i want to recreate this rupp rifle and i need a pattern to lay out the stock.i could wing it and draw it out just fine but i want the dimensions to be consistant with the original.do any of you fellas have a stock pattern for this and would be willing to share it....my first attempt at recreating an original piece and if i get it done would like to enter it at dixons this year....

« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 10:17:57 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2008, 06:28:39 PM »
The rifle you have pictured is almost a twin to RCA No. 57, even tho' they were apparently made 20 years apart.  Obviously, Mr. Rupp used the same stock pattern for both, and any variances resulted from the building process.  So, do you have RCA Volume 1?  If not, I would be happy to post the measurements that are listed there, plus those that I have extrapolated from the great photographs.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2008, 03:03:31 AM »
taylor,why yes i would love to have the dimensions.no i dont have rca vol.1.i ordered that cd you turned me on to ,but havent recieved it yet.after seeing the pics of your rupp rifle i really want to recreate this one and any and all help is highly appreciated.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2008, 08:24:18 AM »
Alrighty then.  When I built my rifle, I used the dimensions that were provided by Mr. Shumway, and by carefully measuring in the photographs the items whose size I knew, I was able to come up with a ratio that applied to all other parts of that photograph.  And so it went until I have enough to make a profile drawing of the rifle.  Here are some of the information I recorded right in my book.
Known from the text:  overall length:  63 1/2", barrel length 47 1/2" and .61 cal smoothbore.  That's it.  That's all that was provided.
Now other's extrapolation may not be the same as mine, but here's mine now, and it's what I used to build the rifle.
Width of butt plate at it's widest excluding the raised patchbox lid:  1.875"
Height of the butt plate, measured from the toe to the line of the comb at the heel:  4.959"
Width of wrist of the stock at its minimum:  1.30"
Height of the wrist  of the stock at its minimum:  directly behind the spur of the trigger guard, and through the fleur de lis beavertails behin the tail of the lock plate - 1.27"
Height of wrist from the step up through the silver wrist inlay:  1.64"
Patch box:  diameter of hinge at the knuckles:  .02065", width at the butt plate:  2.067", width at the hinge:  1/908", AOL patchbox:  7.1095", length of head from fore side of hinge:  2.703", width of the dome at the butt:  1/118",  length of lid to the knuckle:  4.25", width of fleur de lis across the tip:  1.357", width of fleur de lis at the middle:  1.741"
Lock plate :  5.32"
Length of trigger guard bow from back of spur to front of boss:  2.55"
Forward most ramrod pipe:  1.6"
Length of nose piece and flame inlay:  2.353"  Flame length:  1.053"
First barrel pin from the muzzle:  2.8"

You really  must get yourself a copy of RCA Vol. 1 (to start)  Without the actual rifle in your hands, it is the next best thing, and i don't see how you will come even close without it.  Also remember that the rifle you posted is not No 57 RCA Herman Rupp 1793, but it's sister.

Good luck.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2008, 05:59:03 PM »
thanks taylor,yes the pic i posted is the sister but the only pic i have is of the one you built.and its this rifle i want to build.once my cd from the kra gets here i should have all the pics i need of the general carving and engraving.here is a pic of the rupp rifle taylor built and the very same one i am going to recreate.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2008, 07:13:05 PM »
Lew,

Good luck with that one.  The Lehigh guns are my dream as well.  I built one 2 years ago ( with help from the board), and it came out OK.  But I've just got to tell you, this will be the most difficult endeavor you have attempted to this point.

The nuances of the Lehigh/Northhampton style of rifle, is VERY difficult to achieve.

I'm not trying to discourage you, in fact, I have the parts to start another of my own. (read: glutton for punishment), but know that this will be a great challenge, and not one for a second or third build.

What ever you decide to do.... stay true to the style.  Don't compromise.  The end result will be rewarding.
In His grip,

Dane

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2008, 07:24:19 PM »
dane,thanks for the words of incouragement,i will give it my all and im sure i will be very happy with the end result.i have been wanting to challenge myself and i really love this rifle.on my last build i used the inlay around the patch box from this rupp mrifle and really love the way it looks.and im glad to hear you have already built this style so i can call on you for sound advise from time to time...lol.
its not always where we end up but the journey it took to get there....heres an example of my last build....

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 05:41:23 PM »
i have been looking for furniture for this rifle and totw seems to have everything i need.i cannot find my parts and price list for reaves anyone know if he has these buttplates and triggerquards.

Offline b bogart

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 06:42:04 PM »
Hey Lew
Reeves has a #14 Jacob Rupp buttplate,and a #33 Herman Rupp buttplate, and a #61 Herman Rupp trigger gaurd. Write to him and he will let you know what's appropriate. They are nice castings!!!
Bruce

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 07:31:17 PM »
 Contact info for Reaves:

Reaves Goehring Jr.
 Hempfield Manor Farm
 4436 Marietta Ave.
 Columbia, Pa, 17512

 717-684-2022

Tim C.

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 08:20:23 PM »
just found my copy of reaves list of buttplates.anybody have his trigger quard list i can get a copy...

Offline David Rase

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 09:44:00 PM »
just found my copy of reaves list of buttplates.anybody have his trigger quard list i can get a copy...
Ask and you shall receive.  Here are scans of the list I picked up from Reeves at Dixon's last July.  Isn't technology great sometimes?
DMR

Admin Note:

I have deleted the lists.  Last year, I spoke to Reaves about posting his lists and he asked that the prices be deleted.

David, would you please email the lists to Lew?  If you can white out the prices, post away and I'll save the post where it will be available for all.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but I figure we owe Reeves for perpetuating these castings.

Larry Luck

Larry,  I apologize for the inconvenience I caused you by posting the lists with prices.  Because the list was a hand out from Reeves I thought it was acceptable for public knowledge.  Had I known that you and Reeves had a discussion I would not have made the post in the format I did.  Per your message I have deleted the prices and re-posted the lists.
DMR




« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 06:59:24 AM by Ky-Flinter »

Joe S

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 11:49:07 PM »
I built a Lehigh based on RCA #57.  It was not easy.  One of the biggest problems I had was visualizing what the rifle actually looked like.  The difficulty is that the photographs tell only part of the story.  I’d recommend you read everything Kettenberg has to say about Lehighs in general and the Rupp rifle in particular.  There is good material on his web site, and also extensive discussions in the archives with Kettenberg, and also with several other talented and knowledgeable builders.  Also look at Allen Martin’s rifles.

One very important feature that is commonly overlooked is the shape of the lock.  As best as I can measure it, the lock plate is about 0.80” high.  You can get there with a large Siler by filing off the bottom of the lock and the tumbler foot.  The tail will also need to be reshaped.   Kettenberg recommends modifying the bridal, frizzen and cock as well. 

The large Siler is about an inch high.  Going to 0.80 inches may not seem like much, but it has to be done if you want to get the rifle as skinny as it needs to be through the lock area.  Lehighs are subtle, and small fractions of an inch matter.

The front lock bolt gave me fits.  Use a #6 bolt, that helps a lot.  Also, don’t even think about starting until you have a complete full-scale drawing so you know exactly where everything goes.  I spent many hours working through part placement on paper, and I still had a hard time with it.  Placement of the ramrod hole is critical to getting the shape of the lock area correct.

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 05:51:37 PM »
thanks guys ,another local builder and friend of mine emailed me the lists yesterday!!!that is one of the things i love about this site."ask and you shall recieve""

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2008, 02:21:50 PM »
thanks dave for taking the time to posts these>>>

Offline Larry Luck

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2009, 04:00:11 AM »
Dave,
Many thanks.
Happy New Year to all.
Larry Luck

C. Cash

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2009, 09:04:41 AM »
Lew....that is a very nice looking rifle on that last project!  Look forward to seeing this one as well.

lew wetzel

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Re: h.rupp stock pattern
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2009, 05:53:29 PM »
hey chris,thanks for the kind words,that stock i sold you is it a southern mtn.rifle yet.still waiting on the pics!!!hope you and the family had a great holiday...