Author Topic: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL  (Read 2823 times)

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

  • Library_mod
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2081
ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« on: January 07, 2013, 04:40:33 AM »
A fine gun from the South....by William Horton Hobbs ,Talledega,Alabama

Here is the URL:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24868.0

Comment here as a reply, please

The Museum Committee
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 04:42:34 AM by Hurricane ( of Virginia) »

alboy

  • Guest
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 12:31:52 AM »
I agree that research, comparison to similar signed rifles or documented rifles, and facts are critical to correctly identify a rifle to a specific gunsmith. If the rifle is fully signed by the maker, it does not need attribution because it is a fact, given it is in original condition and there are no identifiable issues. Attribution means “to attribute to”, not a clear and known fact. That is why the word exists.

I am not aware of any other marked W. H. H. rifle of this period in the South. If anyone is, please
comment.

There are in fact at least 2 William H. Higgins I can identify as related to the Higgins Clan of gunsmiths. One is repeatedly documented as a silversmith in KY and the other is repeatedly identified as a blacksmith in AL. This is in the census and the family history. Of course, with the Higgins Clan, gunsmiths, blacksmiths, and silversmiths are all closely related and multi-talented. However, this rifle is not silver mounted.

There are several other possible initial matches in the South, as with almost any initial marked candidate.

Given that Palmer A. Higgins was in Butts County, GA in 1830 with his family, then in KY in 1850, then in AL after 1850, it seems there is a good possibility of GA rifles looking like KY rifles looking like AL rifles. However, I may be misunderstanding the connections.

And then there is the comment in Dan Wallace’s notes that the Hobbs rifle came from the Hobbs family, although I have no other documentation to prove it. 

Higgins, Palmer (1803-1889). gunsmith. 1850, Trigg County, KY. Palmer, 47, gunsmith; Hannah, 46, William 23, silversmith; all 3 born in S.C.; Charlotte, 19, born in Alabama; Mary, 9, born in Kentucky; William Jr, 2, born in Louisiana [Census]. Palmer was born in 1803 in Laurens County. Palmer died on 14 February 1889 in Gadsden, Etowah County, Alabama. His father was William Higgins and his mother: Nancy Ashley; his wife was Hannah Farrow (1804-1883) whom he married c.1819 in Laurens County, South Carolina. Palmer had a son William (1827-1870) who was a silversmith [family genealogy].

Higgins, William H. (1817-1868). blacksmith. 1850, Chambers County. William H. Higgins, born in SC, $800 real estate, 32, blacksmith; Adeline, 33, wife; Lavina, 7, both born in GA; William, 4; John, 1, both born in AL; John Lavin, 26, born in GA [Census].

William H. Higgins was born August 4, 1817. The family resided in Butts County, Georgia, a few years and then moved and settled in Chambers County, Alabama, twelve miles north of LaFayette. Mr. Higgins was an excellent mechanic and conducted a smithy, providing well for the support and comfort of his family. In religious faith the family were Baptist. He was esteemed by his neighbors as a just and upright man. He was an affectionate husband and a kind and indulgent father and his wife, Adaline, was a most estimable woman, a congenial companion and devoted mother. They were the esteemed friends and neighbors. . . . [William] died September 5, 1868 of cancer. He suffered a great deal. . . . [He was buried] at the cemetery at old Bethel Church. . . . [from the Clark family genealogy, 1905 on Ancestry].

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 852
  • F. & A.M. Helion #1; 3rd SFG(ABN)
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2022, 09:48:46 PM »
Update on this rifle. Gerald Neeves recalled owning this rifle about 30 years ago and mentioned I should remove the barrel and see if it was signed and dated underneath. I did, and it was. See photos.




"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1602
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 03:11:09 AM »
 ??? ???.. well, Bill,... what is the relation of your barrel to the WHH signed barrel in the topic,.. and what rifle was your barrel removed from,..? ... photos, please,... got me wondering, now,... regards,... CCF ...

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 852
  • F. & A.M. Helion #1; 3rd SFG(ABN)
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2022, 04:20:00 AM »
It’s the same rifle. I took the barrel out of the stock after I got it home from the Tennessee Longrifle Show back in May 2021. Just started thinking about it this morning and decided to share the photos. Pretty interesting, don’t you think? It’s the one on the right with the cool Patchbox.

Bill

« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 04:27:19 AM by Sequatchie Rifle »
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline bama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1893
    • Calvary Longrifles
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2022, 04:39:04 AM »
Well Bill, who do you think H. G. R. is? Is that the barrel maker, rifle builder or a possible owner? Are you saying that this is not a William Horton Hobbs rifle? Inquiring minds want to know! ;D

Jim
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1602
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2022, 05:50:07 AM »
 ??? ???.. same here, Jim and Bill.... is this rifle signed "WHH" on top flat, and "HGR 1855" on bottom flat,..? interesting feature,....

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 852
  • F. & A.M. Helion #1; 3rd SFG(ABN)
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2022, 06:28:35 AM »
It is signed WHH on the top and HGR Aug 11th 1855 on the bottom. HGR was most probably the barrel maker, while in believe with high confidence WHH was the gunmaker. I’d like to determine who HGR was and am working on it.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1602
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2022, 03:24:31 PM »
 8) 8).. thanx Bill for the explanation,.. a most interesting Southern rifle,... !!!
 

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 852
  • F. & A.M. Helion #1; 3rd SFG(ABN)
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2022, 10:21:48 PM »
It has a great Patchbox.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline LynnC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2004
Re: ALR Master Gunmaker:William Horton Hobbs...Talledega, AL
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2022, 05:37:36 AM »
My guess is that HGR is the man who ordered the rifle and had his initials and date engraved under the barrel when it was finished. In case it were ever stollen he had proof of ownership.

Just my SWAG at the mystery. Good luck finding out who HGR was and thanks for the most interesting update!
If you Really Think the Sky is Falling, perhaps you need to review your Nursery Rhymes.....