KRA Bulletin Whitfield House early "longrifle"

[rich pierce]

Not sure how many get the KRA bulletin but in  the winter 2012 magazine there is a short article about a gun examined by Richard Hjusa and Ron Gable.  Stocked in curly maple with a round barrel, the gun is both referred to as a longrifle and later, "the gun has a 38 and 1/2" round smooth barrel and was a fowler, and the bore appears to be 12 ga or 70-78 caliber."  The gun has a guard quite similar to the Marshall rifle and the buttstock architecture including the stepped wrist is also evocative of the Marshall rifle, though the cheekpiece is weak.  There is a rear sight and it appears to me that it had double set triggers.  It does have a fowler-style entry thimble.  So the gun is a bit confusing to me, but appears mid-a8th century Moravian in styling and was perhaps made from a conglomeration of available parts.  Odd to think of a large bore round barreled fowling piece with a stepped wrist, rear sight and double set triggers but there it is.  Anyone see it and have impressions?

[Eric Kettenburg]

My impression for years has been that perhaps something secondary was done to the butt.  It's very odd that the gun - even as a parts gun, which it basically is - is professionally stocked, carries carving that is well executed and designed, but looks like the butt from the wrist back was scraped by a snow shovel.  I wonder if someone unprofessionally (and unceremoniously) removed material from the stock to thin it in an attempt to lighten it or otherwise fit it to a particular person, or if possibly someone moved the buttplate forward a bit and subsequently took material off the stock?  The cheek even looks hacked-down and reshaped.

Either way, I don't see any way to prove or disprove it other than the extreme oddity seen in the abrupt lack of care from the wrist back to the buttplate.  A very, very dull plane going against the grain.

This looks to be a picture-perfect example of a gun *locally* stocked ca. 1763-1764 following the indian attacks and outcry for more soldiers and working firearms.  Just a guess.

It's also hard to view this rifle without immediately comparing it to the Marshall Rifle.

[rich pierce]

Agree the buttstock does not match the rest of the gun in finish but the underlying mass is still impressive and the stepped wrist transition seems very close to the Marshall rifle.  I like your speculation about how/why/when it was made with a rifle stock shape, guard, double set triggers and a large bore smooth barrel.

[Jim Kibler]

This gun belonged to a fellow by the name of Tom Pike.  He's since passed away but was a friend.  This was when I first became interested in longrifles and he was certainly helpful.  With that said, looking back his judgement regarding original guns, restoration etc. was pretty questionable at times.  I'm not sure what work has been done on this gun.  It was sold at Garth's Arts and Antiques with a good portion of Tom's collection after he passed away.  This auction was in June of 2002.  The write up is as follows:

Flintlock Committee of Safety Musket
Lock signed "I Hughes".  Curly maple stock with an old finish and relief carving.  Brass hardware.  Stock restorations.  38 1/2" round barrel.  54" overall length.

From the photo included it appears at least the cock and frizzen spring has been replaced since the auction.  At the time of the auction the cock was a much later English style.  Selling price was $4950.

Jim

[Acer Saccharum]

The buttstock indeed appears heavily scrubbed. Any carving consistent withe wrist and entry is gone.  No patchbox ever cut into this gun. Fowler from inception, perhaps, but why the DST and sights?

Another mystery. 

[Eric Kettenburg]

but why the DST and sights?

Because it was made for fighting back the woodland devils, not shooting at birds.

[Don Getz]

Kibler............strange gun, but, I can't figure out what happened to it.   You mentioned that it belongd  to Tom Pike.   We
had a booth at Friendship across the aisle from Tom for many years.  Sure was an interesting guy, was always fun to
visit him and his wife.  I think Tom's wife made Indian dolls, and had them for sale in the booth.  I'm trying to recall some
things, but, I think he lived in  or owned a museum?   or was it an old Fort?..........Don

[spgordon]

This gun belonged to a fellow by the name of Tom Pike.  He's since passed away but was a friend.  This was when I first became interested in longrifles and he was certainly helpful.  With that said, looking back his judgement regarding original guns, restoration etc. was pretty questionable at times.  I'm not sure what work has been done on this gun.  It was sold at Garth's Arts and Antiques with a good portion of Tom's collection after he passed away.  This auction was in June of 2002.  The write up is as follows:

Flintlock Committee of Safety Musket
Lock signed "I Hughes".  Curly maple stock with an old finish and relief carving.  Brass hardware.  Stock restorations.  38 1/2" round barrel.  54" overall length.

From the photo included it appears at least the cock and frizzen spring has been replaced since the auction.  At the time of the auction the cock was a much later English style.  Selling price was $4950.

Anybody know how it came to be in the collections of the Moravian Historical Society, which surely didn't purchase it at auction?

[mr. no gold]

Tom lived in the country kind of north west of Lisbon, as I recall. He had a home and museum on the property. The museum was called Fort Tuscorara and was filled with a ton of neat things. He was very hospitable and a gentleman. There were some guns in the Fort but not a thing close to what he had in the house. There were guns everywhere, stacked upright along the walls of every room including some in the kitchen. There were guns in the closets, under the beds, (so he said) and in the upstairs/attic. I have never seen such a large collection of all manners of frontier antiques. We did some business, but he wouldn't budge of some of the best rifles so I went away empty handed a time or two.
Sorry that he is gone because there aren't many like him anymore.
Dick

[Jim Kibler]

Tom was certainly a character.  His wife was Ethel.  A really kind lady and quite a shot from what I understand.  They were both good to me.  They lived near Guilford Lake which isn't too awful far from Lisbon, Ohio.  Their home and museum was only about fifteen minutes from my home so it was a great place to go when I became interested in this stuff.  Think I recall buying a Getz barrel or two from them, Don.  Probably got them from you at Friendship.  Anyways, Tom did have a great collection.  A wonderful JP Beck, a nice Shroyer and the fabulous Michael Edwards gun with the long pierced tow plate to name a few.  Fun stuff to remember.  Sorry to derail the topic... 

[Eric Kettenburg]

Not a derailment at all.  I think it is VERY important to maintain a modern history of these old pieces and the caretakers who have been involved with them through the 20th and now 21st century.  For multiple reasons.

[mr. no gold]

Ethel was NMLR ladies champion a number of times, Tom said. He thought that she could outshoot him. He also had a Beyer rifle that was a screamer. Wonder where those guns are today. The Edwards was probably the best one ever even though the carving had been heavily worn some. There were so many guns to see that the Whitfield House rifle would have been lost in the crowd. Do you recall seeing  that specific piece, Jim?
Dick

[Jim Kibler]

Dick,

Nope don't recall seeing this gun before the sale.  You're right that it could have been easily overlooked.  I also suspect it's significance might not have been fully realized.  Your decription of the house was pretty good.  Tom acquired most of these guns in the early days before there was too awful much appreciation for them. I remember him telling me stories of buying loads of guns at a time.

[Buck]

I received the bulletin yesterday and read the article last night. I am not an expert, but I would agree with Eric it appears that the rear of the rifle has been shortened. The image is rather dark. What is in the upper corner near the heel of the butt plate? I would like to add that the thumb piece is NOT Masonic, the explanation given is incorrect or rather incomplete.
Buck  

[rich pierce]

Based on the space behind the cheekpiece, it could have been shortened somewhat less than an inch.   I can see the gun being shortened and scrubbed down to fit another owner during its active life.   Given the carving around the tang and rear thimble it sure seems it would have been carved around the cheekpiece.