Kline, Klinedinst rifle photos in Dr. Whisker's book. My thoughts.

[Kline]

On pages 85 to 89 of James Whisker's book: Gunsmiths of York County, There are 2 pictures of Kline rifles and 1 Klinedinst, I believe he has the credit to the rifle on page 85 and pages 86 and 87, reversed.

 since I suppose it is verboten to post the pictures from his book, here are the rifles from my own personal photos, plus their signatures.

The rifle on page 85


The rifle on pages 86 and 87


The rifle on pages 88 and 89


 Does anyone see this differently than I do? If so please explain.

[Buck]

Kline,
I recall the question arising about the initials A+K. I believe that you stated the patchboxes with the edelweiss at the latch rivets were Andrew Kline. It was established that both smiths at times initialed their rifles A+K and their script was almost identical hence the confusion. I had thought they were the same individual who shortened his name or had it corrupted during the census. If what you produced holds true then I would say the rifle on 85 is Kleindinst and the other 2 rifles are by Kline, with Frederick Sells hand being involved with the rifle on 86-87.
Buck

[Kline]

Hi Buck, I really appreciate your reply and interest in this subject. At times it seems as if you and I are just talking to each other. When you say "It was established that both smiths at times initialed their rifles A+K and their script was almost identical hence the confusion." By whom was it established? The rifle shown above with th A K in block letters and one shown in Kindig's book that is claimed to be a signed A Klinedinst are the only odd ducks in these A+K rifles. I can produce 2 full signiture A Kline rifles that have so much in common with the initialed A K rifles, beyond the script letters, that I do not think it can be refuted that they were made by A Kline. I would love to see the signature on the credited A Klinedinst rifle in Kindig's book.

I think the Sell influence is a little over blown and I will try to explain that later with pictures, unfortunately I have a dentist appointment in an hour. Lucky me.

Look forward to continuing our discussion.

                                                                                                                       Tom

[Buck]

Tom,
I did not see the block letters on the first rifle. There was a lengthy debate concerning Kindig and Whiskers observations and attributions, the initialed rifles etc. I seem to remember there was another rifle without the edelweiss that was initialed in script A+K, but that was couple years back and my memory is not good enough to remember all of the details. Anyway the script appeared to be identical, but I can't recall who sent the picture and have long since deleted it from the computer.
Buck

[Kline]

Hi Buck, I survived the dentist, but my wallet is lighter. There is a smooth rifle out there with 100% initial match, no patch box and Sell type relief carving. There is a 100% Kline patch box on an Adam Earnst rifle, pp53 Gunsmiths of York County, check out the butt stock carving. The more I stare at the block lettered A K rifle and the Klinedinst signed and  attributed rifle I see similar motifs (if I am using the word correctly) with 2 glaring difference to the A Kline and matching A K initialed guns. Those being the side plate and exposed button for the patch box release.

I am beginning to believe there is an association of the gunsmiths in the area of York Boro. I am pouring over some York county Historical Society records that were compiled for Joe Kindig and think I have come across something that shows Andrew Klinedinst in York Boro in 1815, 10 years before he avertises he is opening his shop. There are a raft full of Andrew Klinedinst in that time period and I think some of them have been mixed together. I think Klinedinst could have been in the York area as early as the late 1790s. I will try to piece more of this together, stick with me this is slow stuff and I don't have time devote my whole effort to it.

                                                                                                                            Tom 

[Buck]

Tom,
I see the rifle on pg 53. I would agree that it appears to be a Kline patchbox, the rifle appears to be Ernst. Good Eye. Look forward to reading more.
Buck

[mr. no gold]

Just got back from the Las Vegas Winter Gun and Knife Show. As usual it was filled with a variety of high quality frontier Americana, European and asian weapons. Throw in some American Indian things and large crowds and you can get some idea of the level of fun.
Well, dealer Mike D'Ambra had the second from the top ,'AK' rifle on his table, and it is for sale. To be clear, this is the gun with the Frederick Sell type raised carving. It is a handsome gun beyond most, and the carving is even better close up.
If any of you have any interest in this gun, you can contact Mike about it. I wouldn't have mentioned it, but since it is a recent subject here, it made sense to do so. Not sure what the price is.
Wonderful show and lots of other entertainment as well as gambling. Ya'll should try to make it at least
once in a lifetime, if you can.
Dick