patch thickness question

[Daryl]

In response to 1911's and Jim's post, here are some crowns and the method I use for 'changing a machined crown, into one that works with tight loads, easily.  If I head over to Taylor's I can chuck the barrel up in the lathe and use emery on a tapered wooden plug or the same emery on a small diameter 'electric hand drill-type tapered stone which, along with it's 3/8" shaft, provides a good hand hold, fingers pinching the emery onto the stone.  This 'sets' the taper I want, whether it's done on the lathe or by hand, with a wrist-twisting motion, turning the barrel often to make sure it's evenly cut/ground.  I finish with 600, then usually crocus cloth on my thumb- by hand or with a finger if using a lathe. This turns a fairly sharp angled machine cut, into a nice smooth radius that helps the ball to conform to the bore, without cutting or pushing up a ridge of lead, as a sharp edge or corner can.








Here is another crown, that 's actually been 'finished'  by the rifle's maker - thisdoes not happen often.  This a work in progress Squirrel rifle by Steven Zihnn.   You wait for the squirrel to run up the muzzle to the peanut oil dipped over-powder wad, then you pull the trigger?

[SCLoyalist]

 Which would you choose...larger ball, thinner patch or visa versa?

A .50 Colerain barrel should have grooves of .016" depth, and I'd expect a thicker patch to be needed, which suggests going to a smaller diameter ball.    Here's a link to an old discussion of the care and feeding of the .50 cal Colerain barrel.  Maybe it'll suggest something you can use:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=20684.0

[jamesthomas]

 For what's worth I use a .022 mattress ticking patch with a.490 roundball in my Green Mountain barrel. .12 Grooves +.10 for the ball =.022 its a tight fit but the short starter stud and 6"shaft get the job done! I can get quit a few (15+) shots of before I feel the need to give the barrel a quick wipe. that .022 is a compressed reading.

[draken]

The barrel on the rifle I built for my grandson is a 42 inch 50 cal. Colerain.   I could not force a .490 ball with a .012 patch down the bore, and ended up dropping down to a .480 ball and .010-011 patch.   Isn't this a little unusual?  

[Standing Bear]

Sounds very unusual to me, Dick, but I have never owned a barrel by Colerain. Someone mentioned possibility of a choked barrel but that seems to be a lot of choke. Sounds more like an undersize bore. I believe i couldmshootmthat in my light bench gun that is a .48.

Suggest u call Colerain and ask a few questions

Tc

[JCKelly]

Thank you, thank you, Daryl. These photos go in my permanent(?) gun file.

Now we'll see what can be done in my Man Cave (even the dog won't go down there).



TCompton - the choked barrel is the Green Mountain. Aids accuracy. The best 19th century barrels were choked, including our Springfield rifle-musket (the one used some years back, in an unfortunate affair instigated by another skinny . . . whoops! No politics here).

[Daryl]

The barrel on the rifle I built for my grandson is a 42 inch 50 cal. Colerain.   I could not force a .490 ball with a .012 patch down the bore, and ended up dropping down to a .480 ball and .010-011 patch.   Isn't this a little unusual?  

YES!

For instance - my .69 uses a .684" ball with .030" (12 ounce Denim) patch. I use a short starter - the crown is the first crown I posted - my 14 bore rifle.  The starter is necessary and you must WANT to load the gun - ie: you must actually exert yourself - tighten your muscles when loading. The rifle then rewards you with incredible accuracy.

My .40 uses a .398" ball in a .398" bore - I use a .0215" ticking, .0225" (10ounce) denim patch to .0235" railroad mattress ticking patch.  It loads very easily due to the .010" rifling, a smooth bore that shines like a mirror & rewards me with excellent match-type accuracy.

My .45 GM barrel uses a .445" ball and any of the patches listed above for the .40 - it also loads easily and never needs to be wiped as like the others, every builds fouling, shot to shot - all day long.

For my .32, I am using the RR mattress ticking, the .0215" ticking or the 10 ounce denim with a .320" ball.

All of these guns NEED a short starter or heavily choked up rod and much pressure. Only the .69 cannot be loaded without a starter. I prefer a starter for all, as it's easier, quicker and the ball can be started perfectly square to the rifling is the short stud on the ball is used first. All pluses in my book.  None of these loads damages the ball when started as the short stud and the long shaft of the starter both have cupped surfaces to fit the ball.

When someone tells me he cannot load a decent load combination and has to use a ball and patch that does not even measure the bore diameter of his rifle, I have to wonder, what's up, Doc?  

My 110pound wife loads a .445" ball and .0225" patch in her GM .45 barrel (.012" rifling) without difficulty, as does my younger daughter in the same rifle.  So - I find comprehension of these loading problems, quite mystifying.  Perhaps it's simply a lack of being shown methods that work - or refusal to use a short starter.  

Dphar can show you  (video) how to load a snug combination without a starter. I've done exactly as he shows, but I prefer to use a starter - watch the video again on a previous page of this thread. I am starting with the ball sitting on a patch, at the muzzle. I first start the ball into the muzzle using the short stud on the starter.  The rest is typical- punched down about 6", then all the way onto the powder with 3 or 4 punches. I call them punches, as the rod is lifted up about 1" off the ball, then shoved down onto it. The cupped end of the starter does not damage the ball.

I've loaded this way after finding this method worked for me since about 1974.

[Vomitus]

   I think I'd take my dial caliper and measure that bore first before going any farther. My 5 thou under ball size and 20 thou patch seems to work well loading with good accuracy. I use a starter( I like tight combinations).

[Daryl]

Guys, like LB noted in his post, we all pretty much use the same patch material, or thicknesses and none of us ever has any trouble loading - never any fouling problems so something we are collectively doing, is working.  Too, as far as accuracy goes, this bunch is @!*% difficult to beat on a trail.
 
Although perhaps we should wipe now and then, no one does - ever. We're not shooting quickly, perhaps 2 or 3 or even 5 minutes between shots and rarely with a rifle does the barrel get warm.  It's dry here, so powder fouling, if there was any buildup, shot to shot, would harden and prevent loading the next one.  

Whenever we get moist weather, we see black fouling around the breech instead of white and perhaps some dampness or even water forming in a fouled pan - a wipe with a cloth before priming works.  Never a fouling buildup, and we pretty much all use balls that are .005" under bore size and a .020" or thicker patch.  That basic combination seems to work in every barrel we are using, GM, Getz, Rice, Longhammok or Rayle, square rifling, or deep .016" rounded.  The odd guy uses a .010" smaller ball, but with the same .020" to .023" patch.

No one we shoot with, would consider using .012" patching for anything other than a handkerchief or for wiping fouling from the pan on a rainy day of shooting.

edited - Yes - even the guys with the TC's and Italian copies of the TC's use the same combination, some with the smaller .490" ball. Thick patches hold more lube and seal better than thin patches.