Frizzen not trowing forward

[cmac]

I have a small Russ Hamm lock and the frizzen isn't trowing forward more than half way when fired. I've tried all sizes of flints, bevel up and down, and tweaking the hammer.
The frizzen spring has an arc at the back but doesn't look like it would effect the throw. Other than the fact that where the lobe rides the spring is about the flattest spot.
You can see a photo of the lock under gun building-brass barreled pistol in the works. Any info would be great,thanks

[Acer Saccharum]

Are you getting spark?

Can you move the frizzen completely forward by hand?

The friz should resist opening early in its opening, maybe the first third of its travel.  but it should reach a point where it flies forward all on its own, at about halfway open, it should suddenly flip open.


How does strength of mainspring seem to you, when you compare with other locks of similar size?

[cmac]

Acer the frizzen can can be move by hand and functions as you say. The main spring is plenty strong

[smylee grouch]

I had one that the lock bolts were too tight on and the frizzen was scraping on the barrel enough to impede the forward motion of the frizzen.

[Randall Steffy]

Hi cmac,
Has the toe of the frizzen galled the frizzen spring? Glassy smooth, polished contact faces and appropriate high pressure grease may do the trick. I also have this lock and have on occasion had the same issue. Also, is the flint tearing the frizzen (too soft frizzen)? Just some potential problem areas to consider.

[cmac]

No the lock bolts aren't too tight, frizzen is hard enough a file can't really cut it at all, the spring and foot of the frizzen are smooth, and I have lubed contact areas.

[alex e.]

Does the lock do this when it is out of the gun?

[Gaeckle]

...........it just may be that the frizzen is opening completley and then bouncing back to a half open position........


To see if this is indeed happening, open the frizzen all the way, place your thumb at the point where the frizzen should touch your thumb, close the frizzen and snap the lock while keeping your thumb where the frizzen should be when fully opened. If this is happening you will feel the frizzen hit your thumb.

[cmac]

The frizzen does the same with the lock removed. The frizzen isn't bouncing back

[Acer Saccharum]

Does the lock make good spark?

If not, the frizzen may be too soft, and the flint will never glide over the surface, but get stuck in the friz. Like driving on a muddy road.

[Acer Saccharum]

When you tip the friz forward, about 1/3 of its travel, does it flip forward, or do you have to keep pushing it to all the way open?

[rich pierce]

Sometimes the cramming angle of the toe of the frizzen that rides on the spring is off.  Changing that is tricky business, but can be remedied by either bending it toward the rear of the lock (obviously heated to orange and requiring  re-hardening and tempering) or careful stoning to change the angle of the contact surface.  But be careful to not make to teat pointy else friction will be high.  If you do try the heating and bending option you must place a steel rod in the frizzen pivot screw hole or it will deform.

[whitebear]

With the lock mounted to the gun take the frizen spring completely off the lock and snap it.  See what hapens when you do that.  If it still gives trouble something is too tight or galling.

[Stophel]

You say the frizzen spring has an arc at the rear... well that's probably the problem.  The frizzen "toe" has to go "uphill" way too much for it to snap over.  The frizzen should hit its "snapover point" just as the flint passes the bottom edge of the frizzen.  Getting it to do this requires some careful fittting... and a FLAT frizzen spring.   Without seeing the lock in question, generally, the top arm of the frizzen spring should be nearly horizontal, with no ski ramp at the end.

I had to look it up to see what the Russ Hamm frizzen spring looked like!  It has a sort of "hump" at the end....  At any rate, it would probably need to be tweaked to get the frizzen toe to snap over at the proper point.

[Curtis]

Use caution snapping the lock on a frizzen without a spring...  I watched one go flying off a fellow's gun one time when it was fired with a broken frizzen spring.  Snapped it right off.

Just my humble opinion.

Curtis

[Michael]

LOL!! Curtis. I've made a new frizzen screw and frizzen spring. Won't do that again!!!

[cmac]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think its either the curl on the back of the spring or the angle in which the hammer strikes. Right now I'm leaning toward the spring. The frizzen is hard and all other parts have been polished, lubed, and checked for galling etc.  The frizzen does go forward on its own past 1/3 travel. I have had it fire forward a few times but mostly not. Sometimes the flint stops at the very bottom edge of the frizzen, this is what makes me think it could be the hammer angle

[Acer Saccharum]

I'd try flint positions before changing cock angle.

Shorten the flint way back, and bevel up to see if there is any improvement.

[Bob Roller]

Take the lock apart and clean it and then polish the contact surfaces between the maninspring and tumbler.
I'm surprised to hear of one of these Russ Hamm locks still in use anywhere.

Bob Roller

[Dphariss]

A photo of the front 1/2 of the lock would be useful.
At this date its possible its had parts replaced, like a generic frizzen spring that stops the frizzen.

Dan

[hammer]

Mmmmm.   Bit of a puzzle.   It is not clear from the pictures but could be the cock is not angled down enough to ensure the flint strikes the steel at the correct angle.   That is around 28 degrees.  If too horizontal then the flint edge will not scrape down the whole face of the steel and flip it back.   
I suggest you set the flint in the jaws so that the edge touches the bottom corner of the steel at the junction with the pan cover when the frizzen is lifted back and the cock carefully let forward.  Then bring the cock back to half cock, close the frizzen and carefully let the cock forward again.  If the lock is properly set up the flint edge should be clear of the steel at half cock but meet the face of the steel around 3/4 way up when rotated forward.  And then scrape all the way down to the bottom.  Just before the bottom the frizzen should flip back.  You may have to press the cock down as it will have no momentum of its own.   If your lock can't do this then you more than likely have a problem with its design.
What can be done to fix it will depend on what you discover here.

Good luck.

[Acer Saccharum]

Does the lock make spark?

[Bob Roller]

When I made these Maslin locks,I used a stronger mainspring than the cast
one Hamm used and used a link as well.Fatigued mainspring may be the
problem here as well. With the cock at rest on on the plate,try to push the spring up
using both thumbs. If you can lift it off the tumbler with this bit of effort,mainspring
fatigue is a problem.

Bob Roller

[cmac]

It sparks. Not as great as I would like but ok. I think if anything it is too hard. The main spring passed the two thumb test.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Any chance the frizzen screw is too tight binding up the free movement of the thing? Probably too simple a solution.