Barrel steel question

[Ezra]

Has anyone ever heard of a steel called  GBQ 1168 used for black powder rifle barrels?  I can't find anything on it.  Thanks.

Ez

[okieboy]

 The GBQ is obviously Gun Barrel Quality, but 1168 does not appear to be any currently used steel designation such as AISI. It probably refers to MIL-STD-1168, a set of military standards used from 1949-1975, or JIS 1168 (Japanese Industrial Standard 1168), which may be the same standard.
 Hope this helps with your search.

[Ezra]

Thanks okieboy.  I was told that Green River barrels (in the 1970's) were made from 10L14, early on and GBQ 1168 later on.  Had never heard of GBQ 1168 is all.

Anyone know how to test a barrel to find out what it is made of? 

Ez

[T*O*F]

Anyone know how to test a barrel to find out what it is made of?

Yeah, scratch it with your thumbnail.  If it leaves a mark, it's 12L14.   

[Jim Kibler]

Standard AISI classification.  A resulfurized free machining steel with .68 percent nominal carbon.

[SleepyHillBarrels]

something like this spectrographic metal analysis.
JIM KELLY where are you  .
 if you can scratch it with your thumb nail cut about 4"
out of the center of it and send it in.
mite not cost much. either way it won't blow up. so it's
 a win win.
unleaded  jim mc

[Ezra]

Standard AISI classification.  A resulfurized free machining steel with .68 percent nominal carbon.

Thanks Jim.  Where does that rate on the good black powder barrel steel scale in comparison to others like 10L14, 12L14, etc? 

Ez

[ironwolf]

  68 points of carbon is rather high for black powder bbls.

   KW

[Hungry Horse]

 The simple response to this burning question, is, how many Green River, Green Mountain, Green Forggy, barrels,  have you heard of blowing up? Remember welded wrought iron barrels shot  well, and didn't blow up on a regular basis. And, they were accurate to the point that they were used well into the cartridge era, for target shooting. So just what is the point of the question? The best barrel material  in the world can be  circumvented by the lack of common sense. JMO.

                    Hungry Horse

[Ezra]

The last thing I'm worried about is the integrity of the barrel.  The point of my question, if you must know, is to further my own knowledge on steels used in the manufacture of black powder barrels.

Ez

[SleepyHillBarrels]

 Jim
AT one time in the late 60s I used stress proof by Central Steel but when I started doing
high power stuff also. I had to switch to 4140 gun barrel steel and the risk of picking up
the wrong bar might kill someone so I got rid of the stress proof. After the shop burned down I was out of barrel work for some time. When I built the new shop I  am in now I asked around about good gun barrel  steel and was told that cert 4150 was the new one and Uncle Sam accepted it for their barrel's. I have never heard of a steel certified for ML barrels but if you stay away from the leaded cold rolled stuff there should be several out there that will meet the criteria. I hear that 8620 works well. If the people you are buying your steel from tell you $#*! no we don't recommend you make any kind of gun barrel out of it black powder or whatever then you have to get a good lawyer on the pay roll. And convince your self that no one will ever make a mistake while loading one of your barrels and all of the new shooters are experts also I don't think I ever made more than 20 or so myself like a lot of you. By the grace of God all most no one had to pay for any of them. I have spent a lot of time teaching
most of my grandchildren to shoot at the end of the day I tell there parents how well they  done not how many fingers they got left. As far as to all the specs for the different bar stock
one can make a sound barrel out of I don't keep up with it  I just use the best I can get
with the paper to back it up. It took me 6 months of my time to make and throw away cutters before I found out what worked to get the best finish in a cut rifled barrel out of the best steel. that and . 0003 tolerances all the way around makes them shoot. but that comes with a price and there lies the problem I cant do this and give them away.
 jim mc

[JCKelly]

T*O*F and jim mc - my thumb's not that hard.

If there is such a thing as "1168", a .68% carbon free-machining steel . . . well, there is just no point in my offering an opinion on muzzle loading barrel steels.

jim mc understands.

[okieboy]

Jim, 11 is the AISI prefix for resulferized steel, and if someone made an 11 series steel with .68 carbon it would be 1168. I believe that as an AISI number it fits theoretically, but find no evidence that an AISI 1168 steel has been manufactured. Could you site a steel manufacturers listing of AISI 1168 or some place where this material could be purchased?

[Ezra]

Pictures.







This is the barrel I have which I believe to be a GRRW barrel.  44", octagon, 1.25" straight and .69 caliber.  No breech plug. ~ 11 pounds.

Ez

[JCKelly]

It is my understanding, per their web site, that Green Mountain barrels are 1137MOD. I use them, though that steel is not ideal. The "MOD", or modified, is a very important part. Having never seen a steel mill test report for such steel I do not know exactly what it is. I ass-u-me it is somewhat lower sulfur than AISI 1137.

I am pleased to say I know of no source for 1168 steel.

It would be completely unsuited for any firearm barrel. Which, I have learnt, has nothing to do with whether or not someone would make barrels from it.

Do you reckon I said that right, jim mc?

[Ezra]

I cannot make sense of 1168 resulfurized steel.  Why would you re-introduce sulpher (if the intent is to increase machinability) with such a high carbon content?  Not to mention, I can't find anything on it.  I e-mailed my source of info on this for clarification...

Ez

[Bob Roller]

Jim,
If it can be drilled at 6"per minute or more then someone,somwewhere will
make a gun barrel out of it.

Bob Roller

[tallbear]

Ezra
According to the Green River Rifle company sitehttp://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/myweb2/images/whiterifles/GRRW.htm all their barrels were made from 12L14.Not sure where you're getting your info but I'm guessing someone's got their info messed up.

Mitch

[Ezra]

Got it on July 11 from Doc White via e-mail.  I asked him what type of steel they used in their barrels in the mid seventies (barrel I have was purchased in 1976).  He said early on they used 10L14 and later on used GBQ 1168.  Thus my confusion regarding the 1168.

Ez

[TPH]

I hope that I am not taking this off topic but I have recently heard that the gumakers in India are using BS970 no.080M40 tempered seamless carbon steel in their muzzleloading barrels. Is this a reasonable steel to use for muzzleloading barrels?

I do not want to seem like I am recommending their products, as a matter of fact I would not want to stand within 50 feet of someone using one of the Indian products, especially those sold by Military Heritage who claims to use this.

[okawbow]

Has anyone ever tested wrought iron, forge welded barrels for pressure rating? It's hard to imagine that a hand forged barrel could be anywhere close to the strength of modern steel drilled barrels or even India scrap tubing barrels. The seamless tube used in the India barrels has a yield strength of around 50,000 psi. Could a hand forged barrel even come close to that?

I have an original 36 cal rifle with a 15/16 barrel that was obviously shot a lot. The breech plug was loose, and only had about 3/8"of threads on it. The drum only had less than 1/4" of thread length. The threads were also not up to my standards for fit and quality. I suspect a high percentage of old guns were borderline unsafe.

Obviously, black powder can and has burst modern gun barrels. It surely must have also burst many old barrels also. Can any barrel steel withstand gross operator error?

[T*O*F]

It surely must have also burst many old barrels also

This was the reason for proofing in the old country; and also why there was a provisional and final proof.  Many barrels failed the provisional proof and were sent back to the barrel maker.  They re-welded many of them and sent them back to be proofed again.  The others were sent to the scrap pile to be forged into new barrels and the process repeated.

I think I read this info years ago on the website of the Birmingham Proof house.  Don't know if it is still there.

[SleepyHillBarrels]

 I have been thinking about making a 40" barrel, and not rifle it so I could use it to
test the cert 4150.  it will make it easier to check the bore for swelling after the bang.
thought 200 gr 2f with a double ball down hard on the powder then 1 ball about a foot
above that and one more 3" from the muzzle. 7/8 oct as a size with a sight slot over
each ball if it passes the test we can call it accident proof till some dummy loads it with
30-31 or worse, you cant fix stupid. there are a lot of ways to kill your self.
if nothing else all this chatter will keep all of us on top of our game when we are loading
up or teaching some newbie what not to do . keep up the good work and don't forget why
we shoot this stuff, it is a $#*! of a lot of fun and we like it.
jim mc

[Acer Saccharum]

It's hard to blow up a bbl with black powder. But ry this: normal load, patched ball on top. Then another ball, short started. You'll certainly swell the barrel, if not blow it. Works with any kind of steel.

[Acer Saccharum]

No matter what precautions you take, or mandate, or insure against, some fool will find a way to ruin his day.