poor boy restoration need help on the maker

[blunderbuss]

I am restoring an original poor boy I posted this in Over the fence but thought it may do better here and there are pictures of it there. I need help on finding the maker who is Graham .This is a flintlock full stock 44" barrel with a missing lock
   
Blunderbuss

[gibster]

Jerry Noble in his first volumn on Southern Longrifles lists two Grahams.  The first is James M Graham - Made "Old Betsy" for Davy Crockett in 1822. May have worked around Nashville, Tennessee.  The other one is W. B. Graham - Cedar Grove, Tennessee, 1891 directory.  Hope this helps.

[blunderbuss]

Thanks that's a start there are some initials on the bottom of the barrel maybe they'll check out .

[Tanselman]

The rifle looks like it has the potential of being a Kentucky-made gun. Seven or eight Grahams worked in central Kentucky, most of them related. The stock architecture, barrel length, tight side facing around the lock mortise, the significant tab behind the front hair trigger, and what appears to be a longer two screw tang all support this possibility. However, without knowing the first initial ahead of the "Graham" name, we cannot be sure who made this rifle. Is there any trace of the first initial left on the barrel...since that is critical to identifying the maker of this gun?

The various Graham gunsmiths from Kentucky are well covered in the newly released book, "Kentucky Gunmakers 1775-1900" which is advertised on this site under the "new books" in "to classified forums" at the top of the page. William Graham was perhaps the best known Graham gunmaker in KY, and one of his sons, James M. Graham, may have been the maker of Crockett's presentation rifle. Again, please check the barrel to see if any trace of the first initial remains, to help determine which Graham may have been the maker. It would also be helpful to see a picture of the tang at the back of the barrel, rear ramrod pipe, and the rear side facing with the lock bolt heads.  Shelby Gallien

[blunderbuss]

There is no first initial however on the bottom flat there is :EBH and what appears to be a reversed S and a F. In front of the name Graham is eather a for leaf flower or a Christian cross in front of that is  backward three like an old & Three screw tang . The owner of this lives in Mississippi and there are still some Grahams living there he's on the way to the cemetery as he thinks that William Graham is buried there . I'll get more pictures up. There is no rear thimble

[blunderbuss]

  

  





You may have just recieved my entire album This photo bucket thing is above me But it's fine if you see it have fun.

I think I have the photos that you wanted to post. Dennis

[Robert Wolfe]

Isn't that an initial in front of the "flower"?

[blunderbuss]

Looks like a backward E like an old & .If it's an E it's backward to the signature

[Robert Wolfe]

What about an "R" or a "'B"?

[blunderbuss]

  

   OK it's a B I can barely make it out . Bill- William.  Thanks

[Tanselman]

The first appears to be a script "B." There are no known Graham gunsmiths in KY with a first name starting with "B" so it seems to rule out that state. The gun still looks "southern" in most details, so perhaps the Mississippi story is correct. Unfortunately there has not been much work done specifically on the southern states of Mississippi, Alabama, and Arkansas so there is no good source to check it out in. Jerry Noble's several volumes on southern long rifles does not list any B. Graham. and it's one of the better sources for southern gunmakers. So you may have to do some original research in Mississippi (1850 census is best place to start0 to see if you can dig up a gunmaker by that name. Shelby Gallien

[blunderbuss]

 

  Possibly the B could be Bill That would possibly be William Graham .We're checking with the local Graham family in Mississippi to see if there was a Bill or William Graham that moved from Kentucky or Tennessee to Mississippi. The fellow who owns the rifle  believes that there is a William Graham buried in the old local cemetery . As the rifle is a flintlock and as William Graham that made Ole Betsy died in 1845 the first thing we are doing is to look up earlier census.

Thanks for the suggestions  
 Blunderbuss

[Tanselman]

It is highly unlikely that the "B" first initial stands for "Bill" since gunsmiths almost never used nicknames when signing their work...the "B" probably stands for the given name such as Benjamin or Bernard, etc. The William Graham gunsmith from KY died in KY about 1845 and is buried there. The maker of Davy Crockett's Old Betsy was "J. M. Graham" and the only gunsmith with those initials so far identified is James M. Graham, son of William Graham of KY. While your Graham line may be related, it is a separate line from the KY gunmakers. If you are going to check the Mississippi census, be sure to look at the 1850 first, since that is the first one to provide occupations. Your rifle appears to be a late flintlock from the early 1830s, but southern rifles often retained flint locks a little later than northern guns, so the gun could be mid-to-late 1830s...and possibly even a little later if made in a more remote area. Shelby Gallien

[blunderbuss]

 
  The Graham that made this rifle may be buried in the old local cemetary .The fellow who ownes it is going to check ,and consult the local Graham family as well. It will be interesting

 Blunderbuss