Block Plane Question

[moleeyes36]

I'm considering getting a block plane for use on rifle stocks.  It's not for taking off a large amount of material during initial stock shaping because of limited work area and capacity I'm generally limited to starting with a pre-carved stock.  My initial thoughts are to use it for tasks like thinning and final shaping of the fore stock which I've been doing with a micro plane and sanding blocks.  I'm not very satisfied with that process.

I've been doing a lot of reading in the archives, researching block planes, draw knives, and spoke shaves to see what the general feeling is about the different types of tools.  From what I've read, the block plane would be a better choice for the tasks for which I intend to use it.

I find a real abundance of different block planes on line and I'm rather confused on the different uses of low angle block planes versus, for lack of a better term, "regular block planes".  From the archives I see a lot of you use block planes for the tasks for which I want to use one.  So for all you block plane users, finally after all that background information, here is my question.  What type and size of block plane would you recommend for me to buy to use in tasks like slimming the fore stock?  Thanks in advance.

[Dale Campbell]

Short version - regular block plane for what you want to do. For thinning the forend you can even a fore or jack plane to maintain a more level surface. This is fine if you have plain wood.

The low angle block plane is best for highly figured wood. Caveat, it has to be optimally sharpened and tuned or you will do more harm than good. It will bring the wood to near final finish.

[tallbear]

Dale
I must disagree ,highly figured wood is best planed with a plane having 50% or better blade angle rather than a low angle for best finish with less tearout.

Mitch Yates

[Dale Campbell]

OK. No argument. Best is probably a scraper or scraper plane anyway. Which is pretty much what you're saying.

[Kermit]

I didn't hear that. I heard a recommendation for a 50 degree grind instead if 45. It's easy to have a second iron with a bevel dedicated for figured woods.

Build this and you'll have a nifty little plane with one of the best irons out there.
http://www.hocktools.com/Kits2.htm

[moleeyes36]

Dale
I must disagree ,highly figured wood is best planed with a plane having 50% or better blade angle rather than a low angle for best finish with less tearout.

Mitch Yates

OK. No argument. Best is probably a scraper or scraper plane anyway. Which is pretty much what you're saying.

I failed to say that I nearly always use highly figured curly maple.  Does anything on this link describe what you guys are recommending?  Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just not familiar with using this type of tools and working on a budget I don't want to get the wrong type for what I need.

   http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-325-1&va=scraper+plane

[RAT]

I don't think he's talking about the bevel angle on the blade but the angle of the blade relative to the bottom of the plane.

[Dphariss]

I'm considering getting a block plane for use on rifle stocks.  It's not for taking off a large amount of material during initial stock shaping because of limited work area and capacity I'm generally limited to starting with a pre-carved stock.  My initial thoughts are to use it for tasks like thinning and final shaping of the fore stock which I've been doing with a micro plane and sanding blocks.  I'm not very satisfied with that process.

I've been doing a lot of reading in the archives, researching block planes, draw knives, and spoke shaves to see what the general feeling is about the different types of tools.  From what I've read, the block plane would be a better choice for the tasks for which I intend to use it.

I find a real abundance of different block planes on line and I'm rather confused on the different uses of low angle block planes versus, for lack of a better term, "regular block planes".  From the archives I see a lot of you use block planes for the tasks for which I want to use one.  So for all you block plane users, finally after all that background information, here is my question.  What type and size of block plane would you recommend for me to buy to use in tasks like slimming the fore stock?  Thanks in advance.

Make a scratch stock. Far more useful than a plane especially if the precarve forestock is rough shaped. I have 3 inserts that with contour the upper forestock to finished dimension.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/how-to-make-and-use-a-scratch-stock.aspx?utm_source=email&utm_medium=eletter&utm_content=20110613-nick-offerman&utm_campaign=fine-woodworking
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=17867.0

If you search  this site you will find references to scratch stocks and where to find more info.

Dan

[tallbear]

I don't think he's talking about the bevel angle on the blade but the angle of the blade relative to the bottom of the plane.

RAT is correct figured wood is best worked with an angle of 50-55% from the sole of the plane. It is tough to find a plane that is small enough to be useful (as the body always seems to be in the way)and still give the correct angle.Stanley's low angle block planes are small enough but will give a lot of tearout in figured wood which can be dangerous when close planning on a fore stock.If you are going to get a Stanly block plane get the regular angled one rather than the low angled one.To get something that works "real"well you are most likely going to have to find an antique or make one your self. A member here Tom Snider makes a neat little rabbet plane that looks like it would work real well which is another option.I use an old Stanley rabbet plane quite often on my forestocks.

Mitch Yates

[Mark Elliott]

I keep three planes on my bench for stocking; a standard Stanley block plane(not low angle), a set of Lie Neilson model maker(palm) planes (flat and concave).   I hone all my plane blades to 30 degrees but that is not the angle of the bevel to the wood.   On the standard block plane,  I believe it is 60 1/2 degrees which is the number of the plane.   

[Acer Saccharum]

My woodworking buddy told me to take my regular iron body stanley spokeshave, and flip the blade over so that the bevel that is normally on the back is now on the face side of the blade. It turns an ordinary spokeshave into a scraper plane.

I said 'wow' when I tried it for the first time.

[moleeyes36]

I keep three planes on my bench for stocking; a standard Stanley block plane(not low angle), a set of Lie Neilson model maker(palm) planes (flat and concave).   I hone all my plane blades to 30 degrees but that is not the angle of the bevel to the wood.   On the standard block plane,  I believe it is 60 1/2 degrees which is the number of the plane.   

Mark, I see the flat Lie Neilson model makers plane on their website but not the concave version.  Am I looking at the right thing?  Thanks.
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1307

[JDK]

I'm pretty sure Mark meant convex, not concave:  http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1313

Enjoy, J.D.

[Mark Elliott]

Hey,  it creates a concavity,  doesn't that make it concave?   

[volatpluvia]

I used a spokeshave a lot.  Yes, you need to take care about keeping a straight line on the wood because of the short base of contact on the wood.  But it can be done.  Removes wood fast and can get real close to the lock panels to start the run forward.
Acer, wish I had heard of that trick.  I think that it would have worked really well.
volatpluvia

[Acer Saccharum]

Vola, you can probably do this in a standard plane as well.

But hey, if you try this idea out, then you may lose the justification to go out and buy yourself another tool (or two).

[Kermit]

From Lie-nielsen:

Block Planes come in many shapes and sizes — all have the blade bevel up. Low Angle Block Planes have the blade bedded at 12°. We grind a 25° flat bevel on our Block Plane blades. This works well on end grain and general purpose work. Higher cutting angles will give excellent results in figured and difficult woods. It is easy to increase the cutting angle by honing a small secondary bevel, 30° to 40°. We can, of course, supply blades with a secondary bevel pre-honed for no extra charge.

Veritas:

Figure 7: Blade geometry of the standard block plane, as supplied.
The blade on the standard block plane comes with a 23° primary bevel and a finely ground 25° micro-bevel. This configuration provides a strong, long-wearing edge that can be quickly honed many times before the primary bevel needs to be reground.

The standard block plane has a bed angle of 20°, which together with the blade micro-bevel angle of 25°, results in an effective cutting angle of 45°.

Article on Woodcraft site:

https://www.woodcraft.com/Articles/Articles.aspx?articleid=442&page=1

It's all about that effective cutting angle, not the bed or bevel or microbevel angle. It's where the iron hits the wood.

[Paddlefoot]

I just purchased a L-N standard low angle block plane for exactly what you are talking about Moleeyes. I like the tool very much and will sooner or later get a toothed blade for it and another standard blade to sharpen at a steeper angle to give the 50 degrees from the sole. If you are roughing the toothed blade is really handy and you can see it demonstrated in the low angle jack from L-N in their demo videos. If you need to save $ that new Stanley Sweetheart 60 1/2 repro looks real nice for about $45-$50. I have an older one that I have tuned to the hilt and set up with switchable blades and it works well. The Stanley has a skew adjustment to the blade which can be a plus or a negative depending on your POV. I have heard good things about the Lee Valley-Veritas block planes but I have not seen one or used one. They do seem to be well thought out with many great features and reviews are positive.

[moleeyes36]

I keep three planes on my bench for stocking; a standard Stanley block plane(not low angle), a set of Lie Neilson model maker(palm) planes (flat and concave).   I hone all my plane blades to 30 degrees but that is not the angle of the bevel to the wood.   On the standard block plane,  I believe it is 60 1/2 degrees which is the number of the plane.   

I already had the standard Stanley block plane and I just received the Lie Neilson model maker palm plane, flat blade version I ordered.  I had them grind a 30 degree secondary bevel on the blade.  It works like a champ.  I'm planning for the convex blade model maker plane purchase next.  Thanks for the tip Mark.

[Acer Saccharum]

Acer, wish I had heard of that trick.  I think that it would have worked really well.

You just heard it. Now it will work for you, too.   




I always wondered why I got beaten at home, at school, on the playground.....