Joseph Manton Warranted lock marking----what is the story on these locks?

[drm2m]

There are no maker markings on the barrel.



Were these Joseph Manton Warranted locks used by many producers of these rifles?

David

[JV Puleo]

Joe Manton had absolutely nothing to do with that lock unless it was to make him turn over in his grave.
An inexpensive Birmingham-made export product... probably marked expressly for the American market where it could be reasonably assumed that almost no one would be familiar with a real Manton gun but enthuiastic shooters might have read Hawker's book and recognized the name. There were also plenty of faked Manton guns sold in England, but most come as lot closer to looking like the real thing.

[Bob Roller]

Maybe another Joseph Manton trading on a famous name.
Looks like an Ohio lock to me and I have a plate pattern'like it.
Easier to inlet than a rounded lock plate's progressive radius.

Bob Roller

[drm2m]

Another Joseph Manton Warranted lock.

Price realized $5,100
http://morphyauctions.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=31120&weid=17372&weiid=6238806&lso=pricedesc&pagenum=1&lang=En

Description:   Philadelphia Half-Stock Rifle by W. Calderwood.
Description Overall length: 50”. Barrel length: 34”. Percussion half-stock rifle with full octagon .32 caliber rifled barrel marked “Calderwood”. Joseph Manton warranted lock. Silver cap box, 4 – 1/8” toeplate, and large silver five-pointed star on cheekpiece. Pewter nose cap and double set triggers. Williams Calderwood, born 1780 and died 1860, worked in Bucks County from 1808-1811. Listed on Germantown Road in Philadelphia from 1813-1818. Few of his rifles have survived. Finely engraved curly maple stock with “ebonized” finish. Hammer possibly replaced in period of use. Scarce piece. Very good condition.

It appears that some American rifle manufacturers used these Joseph Manton Warranted locks.

Joseph Manton died on June 29 1835 at the age of 70 at Maida Hill, England.

[Avlrc]

That is a high price for a rather plain half stock. Must be one desirable  maker.

[drm2m]

FULL-STOCK FLINTLOCK RIFLE BY W. CALDERWOOD
Price Realized: $9,200.00
Auction  4-27-2011

http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?ItemId=92734

This is the same maker that used the Joseph Manton Warranted lock on the percussion rifle shown above.
It was sold at auction in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, in May 2011 for $5,100 plus fees.

[Old Bob]

There are even M1861 Springfield rifle-muskets supposedly made in Europe that have Manton engraved on the locks. The name was a big money maker at one time.

[Dphariss]

Spurious markings on locks and guns are common.
It is extremely doubtful the Joe Manton knew of this, he may have been dead by the time they were so stamped. Which  begs the question, were they stamped in Birmingham or in the United States after they came off the boats? I am sure that Joe Manton did not warrant them. But given the communication speed of the time they could have made 20000 of them and Manton would have never known. By "made" I mean that they had a stamp and stamped the plates. The locks were all pretty close to the same quality no matter who's name they bore. Though there were exceptions. But few Americans would pay for a lock that made up nearly the whole price of a cheap rifle like a Leman.
However, he was in debtors prison in the late 1820s. Went broke trying to get the Gov't to pay him for using his patent on artillery ammunition IIRC. Maybe he licensed his name. But why would someone bother when he was in debtors prison?
So the stamping is essentially meaningless unless there is a Joe Manton Hardware store, distributor or importer in the US someplace, which is not likely.
Dan

[drm2m]

Interesting story regarding the Manton lock marked M1861 rifle muskets.

According to Flaydermann.





Some other stuff from The Manton Supplement.






Joseph Manton died on June 29 1835.

[doug]

    I think Boothroyd said that the firm was continued on by Manton's widow after his death and supervised by the foreman of his plant (and who subsequently bought or took over the business).  Presumably that is the Wallis who bought the business and continued on as Manton and Co

cheers Doug