Author Topic: Barrel Identification (Read 31730 times)

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #50 on:** February 26, 2014, 02:09:48 AM »

KLMOORS, thanks for the information!! One other question, it there a good all around source to purchase decent wood inletting and carving tools? I have carved some in the past and would like to inlay all the parts myself and maybe carve a design on the stock.

Ray

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #51 on:** February 26, 2014, 02:12:34 AM »

Also, Lord willing I will be visiting Mr. Rollers shop in the near future and I'm sure he will guide me also.

Regards;

Ray

Longknife · « **Reply #52 on:** February 26, 2014, 07:12:04 PM »

Ray, It appears that Mr. Roller is familiar with that type of "solid" patent breech. I have never seen one. Normally Hawken rifles would have a "hooked" breech and tang as in the link below. This would allow easy removal of the barrel for cleaning. If it were mine I would order a hooked breech, that's the way the original ones were made. If you are going to see Mr. Roller he can help you out, take the stock along too and your other parts....And PLEASE. PLEASE' PLEASE, do NOT do carve any designs on that stock,,,,OK???

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/664/1/PLUG-LR-16-3

Bob Roller · « **Reply #53 on:** February 26, 2014, 07:27:45 PM »

NOT ALL original Hawken rifles had a hooked breech.There are several samples with the solid bolster/tang set
up.Changing it to a hooked breech offers NO advantage,even in cleaning the rifle.
Also,unless the hooked breech is fit as close as those on a fine English long range match rifle,accuracy can suffer.
Bob Roller

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #54 on:** February 26, 2014, 09:45:54 PM »

You gys are amazing!!!!

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #55 on:** February 27, 2014, 12:11:51 AM »

As Mr. Roller noted solid patent breeches were not uncommon on the pre-1849 J & S Hawkens in particular
The breech is a close copy of either the Lauer fullstock Hawken on page 27, plates 37-40 of John Baird's The Hawken Rifle or the ornate half stock once owned by Leonard on page 36, plates 47-49 of the same book (maybe this latter since the barrel is 37.5", only 1/5" short of your barrel)...

The breech on the Lauer rifle was in fact brazed onto the side of the narrel and the breech plug is a standard flint type breech with a long straight tang..

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #56 on:** February 27, 2014, 12:21:44 AM »

Mr. Burrows, what book are you speaking of? And where can I get it ?
Regards;
Ray Pennington

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #57 on:** February 27, 2014, 12:31:14 AM »

Hawken Rifles: The Mountain Man's Choice

not cheap these days but Amazon has some used for $65.00 (I believe I paid $15.00 plus postage back in 1969)
http://www.amazon.com/Hawken-Rifles-Mountain-Mans-Choice/dp/0882270109

and Alibris has it for $60.00
http://www.alibris.com/Hawken-Rifles-The-Mountain-Man-s-Choice-John-D-Baird/book/2829459

the other "cheaper" option is to borrow it via interlibrary loan and photocopy the pages you want...

One of the reviewer's states Track of the Wolf has it for $25.00, but that's John's second book..

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #58 on:** February 27, 2014, 12:46:51 AM »

Thank you Mr. Burrows, I'll start digging for pricing !!

Thanks
Ray Pennington

dannylj · « **Reply #59 on:** February 27, 2014, 04:33:10 AM »

Ray, I am not a photographer but here are some photos of a Bill Large barrel I bought from him about 1980. It is 36" x.54 and 1 in 60" twist and made up into a nice (if heavy) Hawken. I have killed a number of deer and hogs with it. Very accurate. Danny

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #60 on:** February 27, 2014, 05:11:40 AM »

Danny, thanks so much for the pictures!! Is there anyway you could send me some full pictures of you rifle? This is so awesome!!!!!

Thanks!!
Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #61 on:** February 27, 2014, 05:28:59 AM »

Long knife you mentioned today that I SHOULD NOT do any engraving on my stock or forearm, is this because the original rifles didn't have any? What about silver or other inlays?

Thanks
Ray Pennington

dannylj · « **Reply #62 on:** February 27, 2014, 05:37:39 AM »

Ray, As I said I am not much of a photographer but I will try to get more photos posted. Maybe tomorrow. Danny

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #63 on:** February 27, 2014, 02:43:24 PM »

Thanks Danny!!

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #64 on:** February 27, 2014, 07:29:11 PM »

Quote from: Ray Pennington on February 27, 2014, 05:28:59 AM

Long knife you mentioned today that I SHOULD NOT do any engraving on my stock or forearm, is this because the original rifles didn't have any? What about silver or other inlays?

Thanks
Ray Pennington

While the Hawken Bros mountain rifles were never carved (at least no evidence for such), there are several originals that have the metal work engraved - lock plates and patch boxes mostly....

Longknife · « **Reply #65 on:** February 27, 2014, 08:02:53 PM »

Quote from: Ray Pennington on February 26, 2014, 02:09:48 AM

KLMOORS, thanks for the information!! One other question, it there a good all around source to purchase decent wood inletting and carving tools? I have carved some in the past and would like to inlay all the parts myself and maybe carve a design on the stock.

Ray

Quote from: Chuck Burrows on February 27, 2014, 07:29:11 PM

Quote from: Ray Pennington on February 27, 2014, 05:28:59 AM
Long knife you mentioned today that I SHOULD NOT do any engraving on my stock or forearm, is this because the original rifles didn't have any? What about silver or other inlays?

Thanks
Ray Pennington

While the Hawken Bros mountain rifles were never carved (at least no evidence for such), there are several originals that have the metal work engraved - lock plates and patch boxes mostly....

Ray, I think we need to get the terminology straight, CARVING is done in the wood , ENGRAVING is done in the metal. I suggested that you should not do any carving, as stated by Chuck, it just wasn't done...If you want to add inlays or engrave, yes that can be done if its done properly. Look up the Modena Hawken. Also there was one in the Leonard collection that was pretty fancy. There is also the "Silver mounted Hawken", its the last one on the pages I sent you. You will see they can be pretty fancy with inlays and engraving but there was no carving on them. There was an article in Muzzle-blast about the Silver Hawken when it was discovered in the '80's. I'll see if I can find it....Here are some nicely finished Hawkens....Ed

http://www.hawkenrifles.com/index.shtml

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=20823.0

Here are a couple made by Louie Parker, a member on this forum:
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2010/02/louie-parker-s-hawken.html

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2010/03/j-hawken-by-louie-parker.html

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #66 on:** February 27, 2014, 09:18:33 PM »

OK, my terminology stinks!!!! Thanks for the info.

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #67 on:** February 27, 2014, 09:29:31 PM »

Ed:
Those rifles are amazing!!! I know I won't be as good or defined as most of you on this forum, but I will give it my best shot!!
I really appreciate the conversations and the wealth of knowledge you have shared with me.

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #68 on:** February 28, 2014, 04:00:51 PM »

Gentlemen: Is there a source to order Hawkin and/or English Sporting Rifle blueprints or drawing with measurements? I am trying to get all the information I can to build this.

Regards;
Ray Pennington

KLMoors · « **Reply #69 on:** March 01, 2014, 03:17:35 AM »

I believe you can buy a plan from Don Stith. Don's stuff is very high quality if it turns out you need parts. He is also a real help on the phone in terms of making sure you get the right parts for what you are hoping to achieve.

http://www.donstith.com

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #70 on:** March 01, 2014, 04:22:45 AM »

Thank you Mr. Moors. I think this will be a big help!!

dannylj · « **Reply #71 on:** March 01, 2014, 08:06:33 PM »

Ray, Here are a few promised photos of Bill Large barreled .54 Hawken.

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #72 on:** March 01, 2014, 09:17:15 PM »

Thanks Danny; That sure is a good looking rifle!! The stock is beautiful!!! I can't wait to start on mine, but I have a lot research to do and a lot of questions to be answered!

Again Thanks
Ray Pennington
South Point, Ohio

KLMoors · « **Reply #73 on:** March 02, 2014, 02:51:52 PM »

Ray,

I have "The Hawken Rifle, Its Place in History". I'd be glad to mail it to you, as long as you promise to send it back within 6 months or so. I got it t a pawn shop so it is a little worn, but is very readable.

If you are interested, click on my name and you will find my e-mail. Send me your address.

Ken

Ray Pennington · « **Reply #74 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:27:10 PM »

Mr. Moors:
I just sent you an email and thank you so much for the offer!!!

I will try to attach the pictures of the S. Hawkin Rifle the NRA has on their site. This rifle did have silver trim and some carving. Can I build my rifle with the parts that (Steel Butt and toe plate and steel trigger guard) I have and still add silver trim and fore end and a little carving?

Ray Pennington

,

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Author Topic: Barrel Identification (Read 31730 times)

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

dannylj

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

dannylj

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington

dannylj

Ray Pennington

Ray Pennington