Author Topic: What benefit does graphite add to powder?  (Read 6110 times)

mjm46@bellsouth.net

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What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« on: March 26, 2014, 05:06:18 PM »
I just bought some powder from "Jack's Powder Keg". When I was ordering he asked me if I would be interested in "Jack's Battle Powder", not being at all familiar with it I went with the normal GOEX at the higher price.

Along with the regular GOEX, at $15.60 per pd. he sells "Jack's Battle Powder" which he says is GOEX without the graphite coating at $12.40 pd. But at a difference of $3.20 per pound research would be prudent.

I'm not sure what the graphite adds to black powder other than maybe reducing clumping. Also wondering if the graphite may be the source of the black smudge that we experience while cleaning.

Anyone who has used it please pipe in with your experience with it, and any who have any answers here, maybe some of the more technical types.

It's too late for this order but maybe next time.

Offline hanshi

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 06:29:35 PM »
JBP is excellent and a great buy.  I think it's about like you said as just an additive to keep the powder free flowing.
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Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 08:34:54 PM »
I've used 50 lbs of Jack's over the last 3 or 4 years.  No real complaints.   It seemed to give about 50 or 100 fps more muzzle velocity than Goex 3Fg when I chronographed it.   I've read some claims that Jack's cleans easier, but I never saw any significant difference in ease of cleaning.   I keep my powder out in an unairconditioned shed.   Some of my last cans (stored for 2 or three years) of Jacks did show signs that it was beginning to clump, but shaking the can broke up the clumps.      Next time I need to buy 25 lbs, I won't hesitate to check on Jack's availability.   

Offline halfstock

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 09:26:19 PM »
I think it inhibits the absorbtion(sp) of moisture.

Offline hanshi

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 11:55:10 PM »
I am with SCLoyalist on JBP.  I also experienced velocity gains simply by switching powders thrown by the same fixed measures.  It's certainly no dirtier - I think it's ludicrous to call any bp "clean" - than Goex.  Goex is the gold standard and answers all my needs.  But the case of JBP I bought last year is presently seeing the most use.
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mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 04:15:26 PM »
I'm thinking I may give it a try next time. I've got a case of GOEX coming today. I won't need to order for at least a year.

This is a link to an article: "The Making of Black Powder, by Dan Phariss printed in the Black Powder Report, March 1985."

http://www.mman.us/blackpowderproduction1.htm

I think it explains some of what I was trying to find out. Thanks Dan. I thought more shooters would have experience with JBP.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 06:08:57 AM »
I just bought some powder from "Jack's Powder Keg". When I was ordering he asked me if I would be interested in "Jack's Battle Powder", not being at all familiar with it I went with the normal GOEX at the higher price.

Along with the regular GOEX, at $15.60 per pd. he sells "Jack's Battle Powder" which he says is GOEX without the graphite coating at $12.40 pd. But at a difference of $3.20 per pound research would be prudent.

I'm not sure what the graphite adds to black powder other than maybe reducing clumping. Also wondering if the graphite may be the source of the black smudge that we experience while cleaning.

Anyone who has used it please pipe in with your experience with it, and any who have any answers here, maybe some of the more technical types.

It's too late for this order but maybe next time.

Graphite is and was a way to make cheap powder look like better grade powder. It increases fouling since this form of carbon does not burn at BP temps.
The militaries of the world would not allow graphite on propellant powders.
Properly made and polished powder does not need graphite to look shiny.
Any of the re-enactor powders are not what I would call propellent grade by any standard after about 1810-1830. If they were they would not be selling it cheap for shooting blanks. I have an idea what this stuff is but don't know for sure. I think they found a way to sell powder with a lower than standard specific gravity and I bet testing will show for a given volume its lighter.
Goex uses graphite most likely since they still sell a lot of powder to the military who uses it for boosters and fuses and graphite makes it flow better and in this application fouling is not an issue.

Dan
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HAWKEN

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2014, 02:59:52 AM »
Along with the size of the grains, it helps control the rate that the powder burns....Robin

Offline drago

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2014, 04:01:46 AM »
I use it and it's great. It's made by Goex.

Offline Daryl

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2014, 06:39:10 PM »
I understand that "Hodgdon" owns the rights to and sells black powder in cans marked GOEX but that Hodgdon does not make ANY powder - NONE - they are a marketer only in that they merely sell powder they buy, thus the 'cheap' powder that is in a GOEX marked can, might not be GOEX - as Dan is suggesting.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 06:40:39 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline bob in the woods

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2014, 09:55:07 PM »
Hi Daryl. I knew that Hodgdon marketed Pyrodex, Triple 7 etc , but I was not aware that they also sold GOEX black powder.
Is this new??

necchi

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2014, 05:40:05 AM »
"In January 2009 Hodgdon acquired an American icon GOEX Powder, Inc."

http://www.hodgdon.com/history.html

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« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 05:41:19 AM by necchi »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 06:31:40 PM »
Along with the size of the grains, it helps control the rate that the powder burns....Robin
I would not put a lot on money on a bet that it controls burn rate.
There are a number of factors that will effect burn rate but graphite is not one I remember hearing though since the polish on ungraphited powder does slow the burn rate a little its possible. Its primary purpose was, and is, to make a cheap powder look polished. It also prevents clumping and will let it flow better. But the increased fouling make it a poor trade off in a propellant powder. "Black lead" was banned from propellant powders used by the British Military and surely ours as well.
If you look at Swiss the shine its not graphite, its polished. The shiny surface is actually Saltpeter that migrates to the surface during the final drying/polishing stage.
Swiss looks very much like the fine grained powder I saw in a 38 S&W revolver cartridge I pulled the bullet from some years ago. This powder in a UMC cartridge was not graphited. None of the high grade powders of the 18th-19th c were. We have to remember that the Moosic plant and the current plant at Minden make their real money from Military sales, not sporting powder. Moosic SFAIK never made any real sporting powder. But after Dupont destroyed the propellant powder industry in the late 19th-early 20th c buy buying companies and closing plants. When they were forced to divest only Moosic was making BP. The firms formed from the divestiture made smokeless. So when people talk about "quality" powder from Dupont or Goex from Moosic I have to chuckle.  Once they stopped using boilers for heat and stopped using sterilized water in the powder (under Dupont) the powder quality got very erratic. Some on the later Moosic stuff was so bad I used to throw out 1/8 to 1/4 of a pound from every can since it was so dusty and full of "fines".
Minden is much better than the late Moosic powder for a couple of reasons, both more accidental than due to any effort by the old management of Goex.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: What benefit does graphite add to powder?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2014, 06:41:28 PM »
I suspect that Jack's Battle Powder, its coming from Goex, is less dense than Goex.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine