Wreck of the ole # 1

[Nordnecker]

Train wreck at the entry pipe. Uugh! Man, I screwed up. I had the spacing for the bbl lugs and the rr pipes very well laid out on my plywood pattern. But in my haste and wave of overconfidence I placed the rear bbl lug farther forward than I should have. This messed up the spacing and in trying to correct, I pushed the entry pipe back a little. This in itself wasn't so bad, cosmetically.
I had shaped the upper fore stock, but not the bottom. I made the pipes and was following the picture as best I could. I knew something didn't look quite right, just couldn't figure out what the problem was. I had to shape the wood to some degree to inlet the entry pipe. I decided to take a break.
I came back a few hrs later and decided that I had more wood on one side than the other. I picked up a rasp and "corrected" the situation. I started inletting the pipe. It was making contact more on one side. I had to hold the stock upside down and never really looked at the side profile. The skirt of the pipe was too round. Bottom line is the stock lost it's swell. There is too little wood left and the very spot where the gun ballances is too "bony" feeling. It doesn't look so good either.
The pipe is as low as I can go and the skirt is not deep enough. The lug for the bbl is too close and the RR is scraping on the lug. Can't really take anymore off the lug without loosing it. It was ok until the pipe went a little low.
I'm gonna keep moving on, and back up and do whatever I have to, But I'll never really come to grips (literally) with this.
Wish I knew yesterday what I know now.

[Bible Totin Gun Slinger]

All I can say is I feel your pain, I have been there.
Some times we try, and sometimes we win. I spoze sometimes we,,,,,detour.

I built this hog leg, All I had was the barrel and trigger and ramrod thimble, no lock, no stock.
My first stock is in the landfill,,,after several hours of torture, the next one don't look too bad. I used a rifle lock off a Traditions rifle....
And hold on, it gets real weird now, the ramrod,,,,a chev 454 pushrod with a Briggs & Stratton Valve guide on the end for a patch jag.

Hope you win, in the end.

[Pete G.]

Remove the lug and cut another dovetail a little further back. If the empty dovetail bothers you, cut a blank and file it to the barrel contour. It will all be under the stock anyhow.

[Acer Saccharum]

Nordecker, I wish I could visualize your thimble. Are you able to post pictures?

[Mark Elliott]

Been there done that.    It probably isn't as bad as you think.    A good night's sleep usually makes things look better.   You can't really put the wood back, but 1/32" off hear and there can correct a bad situation if you can figure out how to do it.   I know it is too late for this advise, but you shouldn't worry too much about barrel tennon and thimble position other than to made sure they are not in the same place.    I can assure you that the original makers did not.   I have never measured a rifle or read a data sheet where the spacing was the even close (in 21st century terms)  to the same.   I try to space  my thimbles roughly equally and then put the barrel tenons the best place I can.    On the rifle I am working on now,  they are off by 2 inches because I wanted to avoid the thinnest part of the barrel.    If you are judging yourself against the original builders,  it is perfectly acceptable.    As long as the thimbles are roughly equally spaced, no-one was (or is likely) to question the rest of your choices.   If the gun works visually, that is all that matters.    We all have these problems of our own creation to solve in each and every rifle.   Even the best, most experienced builders do these things and have to figure a way around them.    

[Dennis Glazener]

Wish I knew yesterday what I know now.

Nordnecker,

Wish I knew yesterday what I know now.

You seem to be a man that will learn by his mistakes and not let them get you down. Just think how many never learn from their mistakes.
Dennis

[Gaeckle]

You need to post a picture, that way, more helpful suggestions will be had. May not be as bad as you think.

[Nordnecker]

I might be able to get a pic of this on here soon, with a little help. Yeah, I let the pipe alone yesterday. I was able to rectify the barrel lug problem. I fiddled with the TG a little, and put a brass wear plate on an old spokeshave.
I looked at Grinslades' fowler book last night. Mark is right about the original guns. I felt better about everything after reviewing some of those pages. I was pushing myself, and my eyes, a little too hard on Saturday. Don't know why. If I had just stood back 10 feet or so….

[mountainman70]

Nord,dont be too hard on yo'self.I am in the throws of working thru a similar problem with entry pipeThis is build 9 or 10,dont remember which.Most of the others went ok to good.Dont know where I dropped the ball on thisn,but i am on the way again.Just put the gun aside for a while,then do sumpin else,like cut the grass!!!lol,or,Lord forbid,shovel s----.ugh.Best of luck,Dave

[t.caster]

Been there too. Most guys say they dread inletting the butt plate most.....to me it's the entry pipe I fear most.

[Mark Elliott]

I still have a problem stepping back often enough to take a look at what I am doing from all angles.  I think everybody has that problem.   In art school, they were always telling you to step back and take a look at your work from a distance.   

[axelp]

Some times turning it upside down and looking at it helps too. The human brain tends to fill in familiar information that may or may not actually be there… I think its called the "Gestalt Principle." It is something we graphic designers, Ad men (and Hollywood) take advantage of all the time.

[Nordnecker]

Well I managed to get passed (sort of) the entry pipe. I made a third muzzle cap, got the pipes installed and made a flaired hickory ramrod. I got around to finish shaping my stock a bit yesterday afternoon. I'm not entirely happy with the shape of the top of the butt stock. The casting is a little too flat on top. I think I'm gonna have to try to round off the sides of the rear of the finial and sink 'em in a little deeper. This is R. Goehring's English fowler buttplate- I think, I forget the number. It didn't look square until the stock got nicely rounded. I'm sure others have used the same butt plate.  

Would anyone be willing to look at the Simon Lauck (attributed) gun #121124-2 in the ALR library and attempt to de-mystify the carving around the tang. I see it's an asymmetrical foliate type of carving but I don't have enough experience at this to fill in the blanks.

Thanks

[Pete G.]

Just for thought.....some of the Virginia guns did not have rounded combs. They carried the flats from the buttplate all the way forward.

[JTR]

That tang carving is pretty complete.
If you haven't already, copy the picture showing the tang, paste it onto your desktop, click it open and zoom in.
John