weighing our balls

[yip]

   all joking aside, how many of you folks weigh your round ball, being swaged or cast. and what are the tolerates, just wondering............yip

[Daryl]

I did a test a while back, proving to myself, with my method and experience of casting, that weighing the balls was a waste of time- thus, the answer is no.

If I was involved in an exacting competition, such as bench rest or maybe even chunk, I might - or might not after testing.

[galamb]

I have never been quite able to picture ol' Davy Crockett sitting around the fire in the wilds of Kentucky using a micrometer on his patch material and calipers and a weigh scale on his lead balls, which he had probably just cast himself on a campfire with a bag mold.

I could never wrap my head around individuals that notice one stitch out of place on a garment or an incorrect screw on a patchbox go off about how they don't like speer balls because they vary by more than .03 grains.

Perhaps if you shoot for points or you are willing to shoot thousands of rounds, of different diameters using all manner of patch material and lube and keep meticulous records to see what works best - developing the best shooting posture and habits while doing so, then just "maybe" getting out the micrometer will achieve a minuscule accuracy increase, but I think "honestly", for most shooters, it just don't matter that much.

So NO, I don't measure anything - use balls right out of the box and use pre-lubed patches from Ox-Yoke. Have never missed a deer I pulled the trigger on and never had one complain that a given ball was heavier or lighter 

[Hungry Horse]

 You've only got so much time on this planet, so if you want  to waste it, weighing round balls, and looking for magic shooting goop, Knock yourself out. I'd rather spend my time shooing.

                      Hungry Horse

[Bible Totin Gun Slinger]

I weigh some every time I get a new batch of lead, if they are too light that tells me the lead is not pure.
That plays stink finger with my accuracy.

[EC121]

Used to be a fellow who wrote a muzzleloading column for Gun Week.  Lived in Friendship.  He shot a lot of bench.  He weighed the balls and put all the same weights together.  Then he could adjust his sights for that batch.  With fixed sights it probably doesn't make that much difference if the ball is a few grains off.  Most of us can't hold the gun still enough offhand to see a few grains variation.  Also the powder variations will enter into the mix.  All that requires way too much thinking for off hand shooting.  Makes my brain swell.  All I want to do is go out in the back field and make round holes in things and white smoke.

[yip]

  thanks fellas; ya hear a lot of stuff from fella shooters and was wondering if I was doing things wrong all these years. for some 35 plus years all I did was just pulling a ball from the pouch and shoving down the barrel, didn't much care the weight, all I knew it was 50 cal

[Don Steele]

Yip..I'm gonna agree with those fellers telling you it doesn't matter much to most shooters.
THAT SAID however....I'm not one of those. I enjoy shooting  "thousands of rounds, of different diameters using all manner of patch material and lube and keep meticulous records to see what works best - developing the best shooting posture and habits while doing so"
I weigh every roundball I cast. To answer your question, my acceptance tolerance for 50 cal. balls is +/- 0.5 gns. 

[smylee grouch]

For off hand shooting I dont weigh them but those used for chunk, bench, and cross stix I do. You can find those balls with voids and get them out of competition that requires the smallest groups you can shoot.

[yip]

 smylee; I agree with your observation, bench rest, cross stick and such requires weighing of projectiles. there's so much movement in off hand, for me anyway that weighing is a waste of time. pouring round ball takes time and good balls, without wrinkles and  air holes should BE SHOOT...........YIP

[Acer Saccharum]

Long range black powder, yes, you probably want to weigh your projectiles. Roundball shooting? I don't bother. Get a good run going, and keep the casting as consistent as possible.

[EC121]

I agree with Acer.  Once you get the mould hot, it will yield a very consistent ball.  To avoid the dimple in the ball let the lead puddle on the sprue so it hardens last.  The weights will be consistent enough to shoot without weighing.  If you see a hole in the ball/sprue push that ball to the side and remelt it with the cut off sprues or save it for fouling shots.  It has a void that will throw it off balance.

[Candle Snuffer]

   all joking aside, how many of you folks weigh your round ball, being swaged or cast. and what are the tolerates, just wondering............yip

I don't.  I expect there are those that do however, and if it's something they do, well,,, it's something they do.  They may have a very good reason for doing it.  I just can't think of any reason why I would do it.

[David R. Pennington]

I usually weigh the ones I cast just to weed out the ones that might have an air pocket. Usually out of 100 rounds I might have 8 or 10 that weigh light so I through them back in the recast pile. I figure these might end up being those fliers that mess up an other wise good target, and I need all the help I can get.

[yip]

  what's the best way to tell if your lead is hot enough without a thermometer? just wonderin

[thecapgunkid]

Is it me or are all the bench guys on one side of the room and all the woodswalk guys on the other? 

This is a great post. The only measurement I ever did was to select one ball size, steal several pieces of cloth from household discards, wait 'till I could get the rifle to crack like a whip, coping saw the bone measure and use the same load every time.

My wife was always mis-trusting me when a pair of  fitted and tailored denims would disappear, but her favorite color is gold so I am still happily married

On the other hand, I really admire the surgically precise sniper or bench guy who could hit them little bitty round black spots in a different zip code.   I still can't relate to my Cowboy Action Buddies who use scales and sort brass...even when using black powder...because all we ever do is point and crank at gongs about twenty to forty feet away.   It seems no matter how precise some of our reloaders get there is always somebody with a squib ( the cartridge version of a dry-ball)

When I get my eyes back after cataract surgery in a couple of weeks, I expect to be a ninety percent hit guy on the trail again because I will finally work my load as above.

All I ever really wanted was to know I could whack a general Frazier fellow from a tree at a Saratoga type battle, or feed my family.  I admire the scientists and Physics majors among us because I could never do that voo-doo that they doo so well.

Good shooting and...

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

The Capgun Kid

[mmprwarner]

To (pardon the pun) weigh in on the first subject, I use the following rule if I'm seated or lying down and resting the barrel on something I use balls that have been weighed patching that has been measured and Swiss powder. No matter what position I'm shooting from. If the barrel is not rested on something, and particularly in an offhand situation. I don't worry about weighing the ball. I use goex powder and whatever patching I have found that particular rifle likes.

As far as lead temperature without a thermometer. I have always use a rather rudimentary method. The ball comes out of the mold wrinkled your lead is too cold. The ball has a frosted look to it your lead is too hot. I know it sounds kind of crude, but it has always worked well for me.

[Daryl]

 what's the best way to tell if your lead is hot enough without a thermometer? just wonderin

When the lead and mould are at the proper temp, the result is perfectly case balls - like gems. Once you've cast enough, virtually every one you cast (unless you ham-hand a pour) will be perfect, from the first to the last.

Top picture - 14 bore balls inside the wrapped over denim cloth- 15 bore balls in the forefront- Tanner mould.

:

bullets for the .45 1.9" Sharps- note, even frosting due to antimony content.



.570 balls from a Lyman mould, casting .573x.574"
:

.570's - Lyman mould  (10 ounce denim .0225" under them)



BTW- pure (dead soft Plumbers) lead will NOT cast frosted balls or bullets.  They will, however, if the mould and/or lead is too hot, cast with blue  colours on their surface AND be quite prone to voids inside due to over-shrinkage of the lead upon cooling, sucking air in through the sprue hole.  Overly cool lead and/or moulds will also cast with air voids inside due to too-quick cooling of the lead, prior to properly filling out the mould.  Properly cast balls are quite superior to swaged balls in the larger sizes when used in normal trail walk guns.   When loading oversized "swaged" balls, the inconsistencies of their exteriors will be removed or greatly reduced to where it does not effect consistency on the target. imho

[HAWKEN]

As far as lead temperature without a thermometer. I have always use a rather rudimentary method. The ball comes out of the mold wrinkled your lead is too cold. The ball has a frosted look to it your lead is too hot. I know it sounds kind of crude, but it has always worked well for me.

I agree with warner.  The only time I have weighed any of my round balls was when I wanted to know the difference between the .490 balls I cast, compared to the Speer .490 balls I bought.  The difference was insignificant so I have not done so since......Robin

[t.caster]

I used to say those occasional flyers were caused by a hollow ball. A couple years ago I got a digital scale because one of the fussy guys in our club said you have to weigh them all. Hah, I hardly found 1 or 2 out of a 100 that were off by about 2 grains on a .530 ball!
Now I know the flyers are MY FAULT

[dagner]

 I agree with daryl   for general shooting no problem .the bevels ran a bunch of test on cast with different weights. aka air bubbles   .for match accuracy yes weigh them  .I use +or - .3 grain for match rest go to practice

  dag

[yip]

   thanks fellas; now I'm torn, but still need more input. most shooting for me is 25yd to 75yd. my shoot'n went down hill after a TOTAL HIP JOB, why in my younger years I used to have POWER, now old age is creeping up on me.

[SCLoyalist]

I find myself weighing balls from time to time just to reassure myself I haven't let bad habits sneak into my casting routine.    Tolerance is maybe 1/2 grain + or - for small calibers, + or - 1 gr for the big calibers, and anything with a visible wrinkle gets thrown back into the pot.   I used to weigh balls that I was going to use in a particular aggregate,  mostly for the peace of mind of knowing I'd eliminated one possible variable.   That was probably akin to wearing a pair of lucky socks, but if it makes you feel good, why not.

You might try to find a copy of Fred Stutzenberger's article "Taming of the Sprue" in the May/June 2011 Muzzleloader.   He compares the group sizes from the same gun, where the only variable was whether the ball was as cast from the mold,  had had the sprue trimmed flush with a knife, or had been 'tumbled' or smoothed by rolling between two plates. 

[yip]

  you know your mind can do strange things to you, wearing lucky socks might work, physiologically, you can talk your out of shot, positive thinking is a must. so weighing your round ball  might be a good thing physiologically wise. what ya think?

[yip]

 oh talking of spruces, wouldn't even a small spruce knock a fired ball out of balance?