Differences in working different wood?

[chumney]

I am in the planning stage of building a East Tennessee rifle.  The wood choices are Walnut, Cherry and Maple.  I have worked some with Maple, but to build this one I want to either use Walnut or Cherry.  The question is the wood easier to have tear outs and easy to finish?  The decisions to be made are mostly done as it is similar to a Bean school type of pattern.  Stain type for Walnut is in question as lye is used for Cherry. 
I have miss placed my notes and I am certain some of the newcomers will enjoy  your replies.

[Ryan McNabb]

Both will be generally soft and easy to work compared to hard maple.  Tear outs are a function of technique and tool sharpness, not wood species, but neither should be bad at all.  Black walnut comes pre stained...just oil it and go on. 

[Acer Saccharum]

If you can, pick your wood in person. You can get a sense of hardness by weight and pressing your thumbnail into the wood. Walnut can vary tremendously in density, from useless to almost maple hard. Cherry runs from styrofoam-hard to fairly hard.

Try to avoid the really light spongy pieces, you will be cussing yourself or the tree on every inlet, even more when you get to finishing the wood.

[Dennis Glazener]

Stain type for Walnut is in question as lye is used for Cherry.  

I prefer no stain for American Walnut but I do like to fill the pores with a black filler before applying a finish. You can fill the pores with the finish but I think the black filler really adds to the final appearance of walnut. l think Jim/Barbie Chambers still carry small cans of black filler, Woodcraft has larger cans but the small cans will do several stocks, large ones will harden before I get around to using all of the filler.

I also normally use lye water on cherry but I start with a light application and gradually use a stronger application until you get the color you want. Best to experiment on a sample of the same wood used for the stock. A heavy lye application will do more than color the wood, it actually can deteriorate it and make it look much older than you want very FAST.
Dennis

[rich pierce]

The biggest difference for me with softer and harder woods is making vertical cuts for inletting the barrel, breech area, etc.  Softer wood does not stand up to the chisel as well and can crumble a little.  Doesn't matter functionally but looks like a cob job.  Super hard wood is just plain hard to work.  You will take twice as much time to plane, rasp, and chisel super hard maple.  I believe walnut was chosen as the wood for production guns for military purposes because it is easy to work. It planes well, inletting is easy, and it seems to have a good blend of workability, strength, availability and good appearance.  Cherry can be sort of crumbly sometimes, depending mostly on what angle to the grain you're working at the moment.

[bob in the woods]

I'm inletting a cherry stock right now, and have had 2 chip outs while working on the tang inlet. I glued them back in, and will continue later, but I find that working cherry, even with razor sharp tools , can be more of a challenge than a nice hard maple.  Overall, it's 3rd on my list     [ but I like the end result ! ]

[smart dog]

Hi,
Why is lye the only option for cherry?  Cherry can have so many nice color qualities that are lost with lye.

dave

[WadePatton]

I am in the planning stage of building a East Tennessee rifle.  The wood choices are Walnut, Cherry and Maple.  I have worked some with Maple, but to build this one I want to either use Walnut or Cherry.  The question is the wood easier to have tear outs and easy to finish?  The decisions to be made are mostly done as it is similar to a Bean school type of pattern.  Stain type for Walnut is in question as lye is used for Cherry. 
I have miss placed my notes and I am certain some of the newcomers will enjoy  your replies.

My limited experience indicates to be careful with how much "fancy grain" you include in your blank as the variability of densities creates a challenge at every inlet.  That being said, my next stock (TN style) is Ash, which can be most challenging with the variations of density.  Of course the lack of carving is a great boon to our success.

I want to build one of each "major" stock wood and then ruminate on my learnin's.

[Hungry Horse]

 I had a bad experience with a cherry stock years ago. I had more chip outs than I thought possible. I had much better luck with walnut, maple, and myrtle. Heck I even built a gun with a madrone stock. It was the easiest working wood of the bunch.

                  Hungry Horse

[Acer Saccharum]

Wood varies so much, even in one species, from tree to tree, region to region, you really need to check it out in person whenever possible.

[PPatch]

Chumney: Welcome to the forum. Those long slim Bean rifles are beauts - what barrel / caliber do you intend? Of the woods you mention I'd go with walnut, second maple. The walnut will respond well to tools and be relatively easier to work than your average hard maple. It will make a beautiful gun and is well within the Tennessee style. I am soon to cut in on a walnut blank with some good looking burl in the butt area. I plan to experiment with stains but may end up not using any since walnut is generally beautiful just as is.

..............................

Wade: I'm working an ash stock right now. It is a boger when you first get into it, there is a learning curve, but you soon learn to work it. One of the keys is super sharp tools. Watch out for the way its soft here and super hard over just a bit. AND it loves to dive in if you're cutting with the grain, AND,  because of that soft pith, will split along the grain in a heartbeat.

Good luck to the both of you!

dave

[Acer Saccharum]

Chris Laubach made a beautiful ash-stocked rifle AND it was rococo carved. I was so impressed.

[Dennis Glazener]

Hi,
Why is lye the only option for cherry?  Cherry can have so many nice color qualities that are lost with lye.

dave

I agree and have built several that I just left natural. One of them I still have and it has darkened well with age. I still like lye water on plain grain Cherry, it just looks better to me. Now curly cherry, in my mind, is better left natural.

I have never done any carving on cherry but I did put a patchbox with many small detail cuts and I had at least two chips pull out, I was able to glue them back in place and in the end you could not tell it.
Dennis

[shortbarrel]

We are talking about inletting, staining and shaping the stock. The skill of the builder denotes the wood he can use. I made two rifles out of fast growing southern pine, just to see what my skills were. Dennis has pictures of these rifles, if he sees this post , he might hang the pictures on my post.

[Acer Saccharum]

The skill of the builder denotes the wood he can use.

I am not sure I agree with that.

Maple, hard maple, takes more effort, but it takes longer to make a mistake. Maybe one realizes a mistake sooner if they have to go slower?

A soft wood can be terribly difficult to get good results in, not just for carving, but for inletting and shaping as well.

So maybe the skill of the builder does dictate what wood he or she can use?    I think now I am arguing with myself.

[E.vonAschwege]

Several folks have given you the best answer you'll get I think, and that is to pick out your wood in person.  Walnut and Cherry can be wonderful to work with - each have their own pros and cons, and each piece of wood is different from the next.  I've done some very detailed carving in cherry, and it isn't easy, but it's also not impossible either.  As said, Cherry does tend to split/splinter easily for some reason.  A really good piece of black walnut is a joy to work with, but a light punky piece you will curse.  Maple is the same way, at Dixon's last summer I tried to buy a piece of sugar maple, and every piece I picked up (save for the $$$$$ pieces) was lighter and softer than the nice pieces of red maple.  I've even used Norway maple and Sycamore maple, essentially weeds in New England!  Find the densest piece of wood you can, then look for grain through the wrist and lock, and lastly look for figure. 
-Eric

[David R. Pennington]

Some folks don't like walnut because the dust is offensive to them, but I use hand tools almost exclusively so it isn't a problem. Walnut might be easiest to work, but a little more challenging to finish because of more open grain. Tear outs can happen on any wood, especially figured wood where grain changes direction often. Like everyone says, and this can't be overemphasized, razor sharp tools. Cherry, like most fruitwoods, will take an almost mirror polish. I've done a couple cherry stocks and don't think it any more difficult than maple. I find it more difficult to get a stain I like on cherry. Most of the ones I've tried seemed to muddy and obscure the very fine grain patterns in cherry. The first one I used aqua fortis on and it ended up very dark.The last one I used lye on and it was too light I thought at first but cherry does darken with age and seems like every time I look it looks better!

[bob in the woods]

Here is something new …at least for me .  I took  a piece of the cherry I have, and let it soak up a beeswax finish [ heat draws the beeswax right into the wood. Polished up nice and I like the look, but the neat thing about it is that now it carves like butter, and so far no chips. I just might try this on the stock itself when the time comes.

[Dphariss]

Both will be generally soft and easy to work compared to hard maple.  Tear outs are a function of technique and tool sharpness, not wood species, but neither should be bad at all.  Black walnut comes pre stained...just oil it and go on. 

Dull tools are a problem as is technique.
I would still disagree that sharpness of the tools in the cause of ALL problems with the wood,  chips and such. Some wood, hard maple included, has places where the wood will flake away at the slightest touch. I have worked with Oregon Maple that simply would not cut clean. I was like pine. So weak that the pressure needed to cut it would cause it to tear rather than cut. For this reason I don't use western maple.
Black walnut also runs the whole spectrum but even the best is not as good as good sugar maple, at least not the stuff available now. Old growth stuff available probably through most of the 19th C is often pretty nice stuff. I would rather not use it for a ML. Cherry I have never worked with. European Walnut is generally pretty good, what I have used 10+? stocks maybe and I used 2 blanks of Bastogne, a hybrid Walnut that was the best walnut I ever used. Hard, cut wonderfully, nice curl. Wish I had more of it.
Overall I prefer eastern sugar maple for an American ML, its one of the best stock woods going especially for a gun that will see hard use.

Dan
 

[Dphariss]

Here is something new …at least for me .  I took  a piece of the cherry I have, and let it soak up a beeswax finish [ heat draws the beeswax right into the wood. Polished up nice and I like the look, but the neat thing about it is that now it carves like butter, and so far no chips. I just might try this on the stock itself when the time comes.

This is why is best to completely finish Walnut and let the finish harden before checkering. It glues the wood together.

Dan

[chumney]

The barrel type and style is still up in the air.  I have mostly decided to use Percatonica River for the parts and materials.  Not being able to really hand pick what materials I use, I am asking from those who have built more than one to help a basic beginner.  I have made a TVM southern rifle that is well ballanced and is accurate.  With all that being said, now it is time to build the rifle I have always  wanted to build and keep. 

[Pete G.]

The barrel type and style is still up in the air.  I have mostly decided to use Percatonica River for the parts and materials.  Not being able to really hand pick what materials I use, I am asking from those who have built more than one to help a basic beginner.  I have made a TVM southern rifle that is well balanced and is accurate.  With all that being said, now it is time to build the rifle I have always  wanted to build and keep. 

If you are going to keep the rifle the barrel should not be a straight. Compared to a swamped barrel, most long straight barrels handle kind of like a fence post. Most commonly available swamped barrels today have a bit more swamp than originals, but that is only noticable on the shorter lengths. Be careful on the weight you choose. You didn't state the caliber, but I have found that an A weight doesn't have quite enough weight to make a good 40 cal. B works well with a 45 and some 50s while C and D are OK for some older styles from 50 on up.

Your choice of supplier is one of the best.

[WadePatton]

The barrel type and style is still up in the air.  I have mostly decided to use Percatonica River for the parts and materials.  Not being able to really hand pick what materials I use, I am asking from those who have built more than one to help a basic beginner.  I have made a TVM southern rifle that is well ballanced and is accurate.  With all that being said, now it is time to build the rifle I have always  wanted to build and keep. 

In this case it's a matter of trusting the supplier to select a good piece of wood.  It's a matter of placing that trust into the right hands.  Also many mail-order folks will exchange wood (maybe not pre-carves) if you don't like what you get.  Of course that is before you start hacking on it.  Good luck.

[Dennis Glazener]

We are talking about inletting, staining and shaping the stock. The skill of the builder denotes the wood he can use. I made two rifles out of fast growing southern pine, just to see what my skills were. Dennis has pictures of these rifles, if he sees this post , he might hang the pictures on my post.

OK here they are.

[Stophel]

Walnut wood I want to pick out in person, but one is much more likely to get a decent piece of walnut sight-unseen than a decent piece of cherry.  Walnut does vary in quality, but cherry seems to vary WIDELY... with most of it unfortunately at the lower end of the scale.  Most cherry wood I have come across is soft, light, and flimsy, and no better than tulip poplar... in fact, I would rate tulip poplar better than an awful lot of cherry wood.  "Good" cherry will be somewhat hard and dense (still not near sugar maple, and still usually softer than walnut), and on rare occasion you can run into a superb piece of cherry.  I have a blank here that I got years ago that is HEAVY and probably as hard as sugar maple.  No figure, but still very attractive wood.  Still not sure what I want to do with it... It's a real long blank and I'm thinking the "long" Reading gun...   

Even with a "good" piece of cherry, it will still chip BADLY.  Very, very, very easy to chip out, even though it otherwise can cut quite cleanly.

Some time ago I began stocking a figured cherry blank, which has been languishing in my shop and eventually I may get around to working on it again.  I've tested lye on it and just finishing it natural, and I like both, so I haven't decided which to do.