Author Topic: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice  (Read 7538 times)

Big_Blue

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I'm heading out tomorrow afternoon to look at an Italian imported Kentucky Longrifle called Armsport model 5009.  Pictures show it looking new.  It's a .45 cal.  The asking price is $250.  What advice can you give me?  This is my first black powder gun.

Offline WadePatton

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Don't think I've ever seen one of those. but I'll say this: I would never buy a BP gun without running a patch or two down the bbl to feel the smoothness of the bore.  Also to check for a load (you never know).

Glancing around the web: One sold at online auction for 250, 6 years ago, it had pretty wood.  Another forum speaks of them being 150 dollar guns.

This don't mean it's not a functional rifle, but do check the bore and negotiate like a dealer.  Don't be afraid not to buy it.  Save up a couple more 250's and you can probably make a deal on a really good rifle from the classifieds here.  There's a dandy barn rifle up there now for about the price of the parts.

Hold to the Wind

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Hi Big_Blue,

Welcome to ALR.  I would take a bore light, a cleaning rod, a .45 jag, patches and gun oil with me.  The first thing I would do is check to see if the gun is loaded.  To do this put the cleaning rod down the barrel with no patch.  Mark the rod at the muzzle, then withdraw the rod and lay it along side the barrel, with the mark at the muzzle.  If the gun is not loaded, the breech end of the rod should be within about a half inch of the breech end of the barrel.  If it's an inch or more, suspect it is loaded.  Another test would be to hold the gun vertically, muzzle up and drop a metal tipped ramrod down the bore.  If you hear a metallic clank, that's a good sign.  A dull thud, suspect it is loaded.

Once you've determined the gun isn't loaded, drop the light in the bore and if the bore is dirty, remove the light, then give it a wipe or two with an oiled patch.  If the patch comes out rusty, or worse, it's all snagged looking, the bore is likely pitted, probably because the rifle was not cleaned properly after every use.  If so, pass on the deal.  If the rifle really is new, don't be surprised if the patch comes out with black cutting oil and metal shavings from the machining/rifling process.  That's a good sign, it's likely never been fired.

Once you are SURE it's NOT loaded, I would cycle the lock, if it's a flintlock, open the frizzen, then pull the hammer back and listen and feel for the sear to drop into the half-cock notch.  You should hear a crisp clunk sound.  Hopefully the lock has a half-cock notch.  While it is at half-cock, bump the stock with your free hand or bump the butt-stock on the floor, to see if the notch holds properly.  Pull the hammer on back to full cock, again bump the stock to see if it holds.  To uncock the rifle, hold the hammer back with your thumb, pull the trigger and ease the hammer down to rest.  Take note of how the trigger pull feels.  If it has set triggers, check their function, if it's a cap-lock, don't let the hammer fall freely on to the nipple.  If it's a flint-lock (and you are SURE it's NOT loaded) and it has a flint in place, close the frizzen and dry-fire the lock.  Does it throw sparks?

Regarding the price, for $250 of my money, the rifle would have to be new or as new, nice wood, shiny bore, crisp lock and triggers and even then, I would start my offer in the $150-175 range, as see what happens.

I know I'm forgetting something, so others please chime in.

So, Big_Blue, are you a Wildcat fan?  

-Ron
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 08:33:44 AM by Ky-Flinter »
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

nosrettap1958

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Its a good learning tool and if checked over well like the others have stated a reasonably priced rifle.

My advice, learn on it, make your mistakes and then, if still interested, buy a custom.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 03:33:36 PM by crawdad »

Big_Blue

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 08:54:26 PM »
Hi Big_Blue,

Welcome to ALR.  I would take a bore light, a cleaning rod, a [...]

I know I'm forgetting something, so others please chime in.

So, Big_Blue, are you a Wildcat fan?  

-Ron

Thanks for the excellent response. 

My Marion Illinois high school team was called the Wildcats, but until I Googled "Atlanta Wildcat" I didn't know we had a team by that name.

Big_Blue

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 09:12:56 PM »
I bought the rifle.  She's a beauty!  Here's a link to some pix: http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Michael_R_Mardis/slideshow/Guns/Rifles/Armsport%20Longrifle

I didn't read the advice posted here in time to get my kit together before heading out.  Now that I've got the rifle at home I'll do the tests recommended and keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks everyone
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:14:43 PM by Big_Blue »

jamesthomas

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2014, 09:13:55 PM »
 Nice!, how did she check out? the bore and the crown look pretty new (or well taken care of) to me.

Big_Blue

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 08:07:26 AM »
I had my gunsmith check it out and he says the rifle looks great--almost new.  He gave me advice on an initial load (40-50 grains of Pyrodex RS FF), how to clean it between shots (brush and cleaning patches with non-petroleum grease) , and how to clean it at the end of the day (hot soapy water--who knew?). 

I bought some #11 caps and Pyrodex RS FF powder.  Will look this weekend to find out which local gun shops has a more complete line of muzzle loading supplies.  Still need balls, wads, grease for the patches, a patch worm, a short starter, and a powder flask.

I've got a powder measure, and a .45 ACP cleaning brush.

I'm reading everything I can find online before going out.  I'm looking forward to this.

Offline EC121

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 08:33:39 AM »
I wouldn't recommend using the brush.  If the wire is only crimped in the threaded part, it can pull out right in the bottom of the bore.  That could mean unbreeching it the barrel.   If it is looped through, it might be Ok, but I have never found a use for one.  Also look for a jag with a steel stud in it, the brass and aluminum ones can break at the end of the threads.  I've had both things happen to me over the years.
Brice Stultz

Big_Blue

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 08:41:22 AM »
You don't use a brush inside the barrel?  Is cleaning with a patch good enough?

Can you send me a link to the kind of brush you're describing?  I'm having trouble picturing what you described.

Thanks for the advice.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Considering an Armsport 5009 Kentucky Longrifle and am looking for advice
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 04:45:41 PM »
You don't use a brush inside the barrel?  Is cleaning with a patch good enough?

...

No need for a brush (or even a jag) once you go "old skool".  Brushes are simply trouble to be avoided.  Also, soap is completely optional (powder residue is not oil, it's completely water soluble), many of us use only water for cleaning the bore.  Of those who use only water, some use hot, some cold, some tepid.  There is room for deviations, but no excuse for an unclean bore.  ;)

There's a lot to learn.  

No rush, enjoy.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24312.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32183.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31360.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31242.50



OH MY, you may want to reconsider using the perchlorated powder (pyrodex).  It's highly very bad for gun steel if left unattended for _any_ length of time.  I used it starting out years ago (i believed the gunshop lore about Black Powder at that time).  Then I ruined some bbls (mostly my fault, but exacerbated by the etching action of pyrodex residue.  I later found that BP is easy to acquire (in the US) and easy to clean and as safe as anything else flammable.

The main thing is CLEAN THAT BBL the very instant you stop shooting if using anything but Black Powder (and within a reasonable time when burning BP of course).

And a proper ball/patch "tight" loading with a thick enough patch and wet enough with lube can completely eliminate any necessity of wiping between shots for target shooting.

More reading... (you've come to the right place)

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31846.25  

Mad Monk and Dan Phariss (and several more here) are quite authoritative with regard to all things powder and I recommend adding emphasis to their posts.  I only linked one "pyro" thread, but we tend to have a new "pyro/sub vs. BP" thread 2 or 3 times every year.  

pull up a chair and sit a spell. ;D


And congratulations on the rifle, it should make you a fine shooter.  I'd consider buying one at that price!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 05:26:11 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind