Engraving first rifle

[FALout]

I've been wanting to engrave a rifle for so long.  Well, have been reading and watching videos.  Finally started practicing on some sheet brass with mixed results.  I found that straight lines are hard to do, but do-able.  Curves can be done, but getting them smooth and radius'd properly is challenging.  Getting my body in the right postion can sometimes be impossible.  Well, this rifle I've been working on (for way too long) has steel furniture, even the patch box.  I'm finding that moving onto steel is slightly more challenging then brass.  I want to finish this rifle, but I also don't want to screw it up at this point.  Any pointers on what to practice before putting a chisel to this rifle?  I've been practicing letters and designs I want to use, it's just gets harder for me going to steel.  I don't get the depth in the lines and it seems that it's easier to get the chisel to scratch after trying to get chips cleared at end of cut.  Back to practicing.

[Acer Saccharum]

Fast Track to engraving:

Best thing I ever did was to get hands on lessons from a professional engraver. You can watch videos and read books on the subject all day long, and not understand how easy some things are, and how important other things are. The most critical thing is the sharpening. Once you can create and re-create a good point, the rest is all downhill.

I took lessons from Jerry Huddleston, and went to class at GRS. Best thing I ever did for my engraving.


Steel is more consistent than brass to engrave. I find it easier to cut, as it doesn't workharden like brass, nor is steel 'sticky or gummy' like some brass can be.


On sharpening, a template system, or some kind of quality jig that gives you repeatable angles is a huge time saver. In the beginning you will break your point time and time again. You will appreciate a jig that can rapidly restore the tip geometry. Lindsay makes a template system, and GRS makes a multi-angle fixture. Avoid the 'crocker' fixture as it is poorly made these days, and is wasted money.

Keep practicing. You're developing your muscle memory for engraving, so the more you do, the more natural it will become. Try to find a local engraver who can show you his/her sharpening method.

[Chris Treichel]

Also good to learn how to make your own tools, how to hold your piece of work, how to align yourself to your work, how to place light to see what you are doing... lots of lessons that are easily taught by someone who knows what they are doing. there are lots of different methods each with advantages and disadvantages. 

I am also still learning but decided to go take some classes.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Are you trying to engrave inlays already attached to the gun?  That makes it very hard to produce smooth curves because you rarely can spin the work into your graver.  Rather, you have to move your graver around the curve, which is hard to do well.  Use light, high frequency taps with your hammer and remember you can always go back and deepen or widen a cut and smooth a curve.  For straight lines, pretend that the entire job is the next 1/2 inch. Do that perfectly, and then move on to the next 1/2".  Also, before tackling the real job, try cutting perfectly parallel straight lines in a practice plate and use a mild steel plate.  When you can cut parallel lines every time, you will feel confident that the graver cuts where you want it to cut, under control.  That will boost your confidence for the real job.

dave 

[Don Getz]

Fal........remember one thing, that gun you are thinking of engraving.  Unless you are
capable of doing a good job, lousy engraving or carving will only depreciate it.  I would
finish that gun plain, and practice on something less valuable..........Don

[Acer Saccharum]

While I appreciate what you mean, Don, one has to challenge oneself to improve their work and skill sets. Yes, please do practice on scrap until you feel you can cut the design you want. But at some point you've got to make that leap. Don't do it until you feel pretty confident that you can accomplish the task. On the other hand, if you wait until your engraving is perfect, you might never engrave your gun.

If you mess up, you always have the next gun!

[James Rogers]

While I appreciate what you mean, Don, one has to challenge oneself to improve their work and skill sets. Yes, please do practice on scrap until you feel you can cut the design you want. But at some point you've got to make that leap. Don't do it until you feel pretty confident that you can accomplish the task. On the other hand, if you wait until your engraving is perfect, you might never engrave your gun.

If you mess up, you always have the next gun!

I have to agree with this. I just engraved my first gun lock. I am not satisfied but two things come into play there. 1. I have not had hardly any practice since I took a class in the summer with Jim Kibler 2. I am very critical of myself and have studied enough of the engraving I like to know what I want to see.
That said, you have to go from blanks to hardball at some point. If I wait until I am happy with my work, then as stated I will never scratch a gun. I plan to do nothing but improve within my abilities which are not as good as some but better than others. I think I can get fairly good with repetition of good form but wish I had some drawing training in my past.
I have the most trouble trying to freehand draw something by looking at an example. My elements get all out of whack in comparison to each other. I do much better viewing designs I want to incorporate and drawing them on the work from my head. Things begin to flow better for me that way.

[JTR]

If you can't cut steel easily, check your point. I assume you've watched some sort of instruction on sharpening and the geometry to use?

Also, what are you using for an engraving tool? Something you bought, something you made, or what?

Cutting mild steel is generally pretty easy to do, and cuts better than brass. Also, are you pushing the graver, or pounding it?

Don't get discouraged just yet!

John

[Pete G.]

It can be surprising how just a very small amount of engraving can help an otherwise plain piece of hardware. Study some of the old rifles and get an idea or two and sketch them on the piece that you intend to engrave. Keep it simple to begin with. Maybe do several iterations until you run across something that you still like the day after you sketched it. Get a piece of mild sheet steel from Lowe's and see what it feels like to cut your pattern in steel. Maybe not even the whole thing, just a few major lines; study the results, analyzing where it can be improved. After this exercise you are ready to go.

If it doesn't come out perfect, so what? Keep in mind that most original rifles were engraved by gunsmiths, not by engravers. Quite a few of the original guns had work that was pretty poor by today's standards, and very few were extensively engraved. Yours will probably be as good as some of the old guns, and as you keep at it, your skill set will improve. You, being the engraver, will see every flaw in every line, but most others will see the overall effect and think it just fine.

[FALout]

I've already have material from box store that I sanded /cleaned up for practice.  I've purchased and was given some variety of gravers, some of them are more for the intricate type of engraving that someday may be an option.  Right now I'm using die sinker type onglette and knife shape, am waiting on square graver that I ordered.  I do not want to take on the push type gravers, I have tried with the ones that was given, but feel that I have no control.  At this point I feel better chasing with a hammer.  I have been doing all my practicing on my bench with flat stock and some scrap pieces to get a feel of doing it on a curved surface.  I do have a vice that can swivel, but at this point not sure about investing in holders that can rotate and swivel.  I have found it is really easy to mess up a line when going back over to deepen or flare the curves.  I'm gonna go back to my workshop to practice both engraving and sharpening.  I will be keeping this rifle simple in the engraving, I just think that it needs engraving to balance out the carving features.  From the studying I've done, a rifle can have some engraving and only a little to no carving, but there's not much that I have seen that had no engraving with carving, I only have a few books to study pics from.  Thank you for all suggestions. 

[Acer Saccharum]

Most Kentucky rifle engraving was done with hammer and chisel, with some notable exceptions.

To cut curves with hammer and chisel, both hands are occupied, so you can't really use the rotating vise to advantage. Most curved cuts are done while standing up, and 'walking' your way around the curves. You need to move your body and feet to get a smooth curve.

Some parts of the job, like the patchbox, can't be taken out of the stock without inviting trouble of not being able to get the box back in again. So you need to hold the gun in a vise up high enough so you can stand and engrave around the buttpiece. You can't do this from a chair unless you have a power graving system.

[JTR]

The knife and onglette shape gravers are probably what's making it difficult for you. I've been engraving for a long time and never have figured out how to work with one of those.
I think once you have the square tool in hand and sharpened you'll find a world of difference! Or in the mean time, try to reshape one of you current gravers into a square geometry.

John

[Chris Treichel]

Several months ago after covering almost half a copper plate with gourds, Patric looks at what I am wrecking and hands me a hammer half the size I was using. Nothing to say just something I would never have thought of... another reason I have $200 worth of hammers and can make better curves. Hey, little hammer, little tool, little taps=little cuts and curves.

[RAT]

George Shumway's Rifle of Colonial America shows many original rifles with carving and no engraving. This includes a series of guns attributed to Wolfgang Haga. Because there are no known signed Haga guns, can we assume he didn't know how to engrave?

[Jay Close]

While it is a bit expensive, John Schipper's book, Engraving Historical Firearms, is well worth the price. Lots of good advise and step by step explanations, the result of 50+ years as an engraver and gunsmith. Many, many color photos. I also had the good fortune to take one of John's introductory workshops in engraving at Conner Prairie last month. Also well worth the time and expense.

[wpalongrifle]

i anneal all the brass parts, then engrave. soft brass gives engraving a better three dimensional look and flows into the metal, less chippy. i too also like mild steel better than brass for engraving....re temper patchbox lid afterwards

[KLMoors]

Everybody is different, but I found that using a sharpening system made the biggest improvement for me. I use the Lindsay jigs, and 3/32 square gravers. I use the 96 degree the most.

 Once I could get them shaped properly and consistently, I found that things moved along much more quickly.

If you are anywhere near NE North Carolina, Id be glad to show you my humble approach.

[FALout]

Wish I could take you up on that offer KLMoors, just too far away.  I did get the square graver today, much easier and when going back over something not as deep as I liked, the square graver was easier to get back into the line.  Practice practice practice.

[jerrywh]

 The short heal works best for everything in my opinion. The trouble with a long heal is it will magnify your errors. It sort of works like the steering ratio in a car. Wintergreen oil is terrible on your sinuses. I don't use lube at all even on the hardest modern guns.  Try doing a  nick and dot pattern with a long heal. Impossible