1970's Dixie/Southgate rifle?

[mountainman70]

My late Marine bro had a Dixie long rifle,that I now own.It was original percussion,45 cal.He rebarreled it in 1980 with a Jim McCartney 36.He never said what became of the orig parts.In some conversations I have had recently,it seems that this may be a Southgate that was built for Dixie.I have been wondering about the nice job of inlay,etc.I didnt know if Mr Kirkland imported these,or a local builder provided them.Anyway,any info will be appreciated.Merry Christmas,y'all!!!Thanks,Dave

[Longknife]

Dave, I am pretty sure you have an imported rifle, probably a kit gun that someone fancied up. They were imported by many suppliers, Dixie and Navy Arms are a few that imported them. I had one in '77-'78. If you google "Dixie rifle" you will find many examples with the same hardware and a 36 inch barrel....Pedersoli still makes a very similar one. The thing that sets them apart is the patch box is cast....

http://muzzleloadingandmore.com/products/rifles/pedersoli_rifles/index.htm#Pedersoli Kentucky Standard Rifle

[Dan'l 1946]

  It looks like one of the Belgian made longrifles that Dixie imported in the 1950 or 1960  era. I think they were sold as "Pennsylvania" rifles. Someone has added a few inlays. I don't remember if they were available as a kit.

[Bob Roller]

My late Marine bro had a Dixie long rifle,that I now own.It was original percussion,45 cal.He rebarreled it in 1980 with a Jim McCartney 36.He never said what became of the orig parts.In some conversations I have had recently,it seems that this may be a Southgate that was built for Dixie.I have been wondering about the nice job of inlay,etc.I didnt know if Mr Kirkland imported these,or a local builder provided them.Anyway,any info will be appreciated.Merry Christmas,y'all!!!Thanks,Dave

 That lock is a Dixie from the 1950's.The rest is probably Southgate.The full stock Dixie "squirrel"rifle didn't have this much drop and no patchbox.Some I THINK had a capbox.

Bob Roller

[Hungry Horse]

 Old Turner used to give some of the up and coming builders work when they didn't have guns on the books. I don't know about Southgate, but, he had Jack Garner build a guns from Dixie kits. By the way Turners idea of a kit, back then, was nothing like what we call a kit today. They here basically wood, and parts, and instructions.
 Southgate did use quite a few of those F1 flintlocks turner imported.

             Hungry Horse

[OLUT]

A little more info from my old DIXIE Gun Works catalogs ...... this looks like it started out as a "Deluxe Dixie Pennsylvania Rifle". They were introduced sometime in the mid-1960's. The 1968 catalog has the assembled flint version priced at $169.50. Of course it had no inlays,  stock carving or engraving on the patch box. Interestingly, DGW inserted a slipsheet into the catalog showing a similar rifle with inlays, but no carving or engraving, that was put together from their parts by one of their employees named Jack Garner and sold for $300 ...."He did this in his spare time and it took 60 hours to build this fine rifle". DGW then lists the parts necessary and the pricing , "If you wish to try your hand at one of these deluxe Pennsylvania Rifles...". The patch box was called their "ZD" patch box" at $12.50, while the R. Hamm Maslin lock was $44.95 and the Douglas barrel in your choice of size and caliber was $34.50

[mountainman70]

I keep holding on to hope the gal in charge of settling the estate will call me to come and get the orig barrel,etc.I almost sold this on gbr for 400.00.Glad now I didnt.Merry Christmas to all of you.Dave F

[Hungry Horse]

 You are probably better off not having the original barrel, unless you just need another pry bar. These guns were pretty abusive, in anything bigger than squirrel calibers, due to the extreme drop, and sharp comb. The rifling usually was rather shallow in the old Dixie barrels, making them a swab after every shot barrel.

               Hungry Horse

[mountainman70]

I imagine that is why Paul rebarreled it.I would just like to have it with the gun.It could happen.I wish I had an idea of what this gun is worth,I might sell it.But I am not until I have more info.Merry Christmas to all of ya!Dave

[Dan'l 1946]

  It looks like a deluxe Pennsylvania longrifle that Turner imported from Belgium. Somebody fancied it up a bit. .45 caliber was the biggest bore available. A friend had one in the early 1960s and we shot it a lot. Due to the small bore and the hefty weight of the rifle, recoil was hardly noticeable.
                                            Dan

[smokinbuck]

Dave,
Saw your post and the replies. I am going to stick with my original thought that itstarted out life as a Tenn Maid by Royland Southgate at Rebel Hill.
Mark

[mountainman70]

Thank you all for your input.Another old gun enigma.Happy New Year,to all,Dave

[smokepole7]

Southgate did make rifles with that pronounced curve to the stock (Roman-Nose) and the color and incised carving appear correct.  However, without the original barrel and lock the value is severely reduced.  He always signed "R Southgate" on the barrel either in script or with a stamp. He usually stamped a signature on the lockplate. He also stamped a serial number on the barrel in front of the breechplug tang.  One clue would be the patchbox; is it stamped or cast?

[mountainman70]

It is cast,captured lid.Thanks for the info.Dave

[PPatch]

Deluxe Dixie Pennsylvania Rifle...

That brought a smile, now that's marketing.

dp

[smokepole7]

Well, that nails it.  If it is cast it's an import.  Southgate patchboxes  were stamped.  Some very early ones were cut from sheet brass but later were stamped. 

[Dan'l 1946]

Bet the original barrel is marked made in Belgium.
                                                    Dan

[mountainman70]

I am still hopeful the barrel and lock will surface.Reckon this is good enuff,tho the incised carving and inlays still make me wonder.Probably a good thing it got rebarreled,now it should be a good shooter for someone.It needs a good home.Thanks guys,Dave

[mountainman70]

An update on this ol gun.I recently rebarreled it with a GreenMtn 45 barrel,and a proper breechplug,repaired wood around tang,bushed up the barrel pin holes,redrilled to 1/16 pins.I have a nice home for the McCartney barrel.I have posted the gun on Gunsinternational.com   under my screen name  Mountainman.Thanks for all the input,my friends and bros.Best regards,Dave F

[mountainman70]

Any of you fellows have a Dixie rifle like this one,from back in the day?I would like to see some others,got to be a few around.I still see Numrich long rifles at shows and online.Whaddaya have?Thanks,Dave

[mountainman70]

This rifle,with the Green Mtn 45 cal re-barrel,is for sale for 500.00,plus shipping.Moderator-please move this .Thank you,Dave F

[JRMack]

 I have a rifle that looks so similar to this one, that was my dads first build. It was a Dixie kit as I recall from the 60's and has a 45 cal. GR Douglass barrel and a (Bedford style) Russ Hamm Warranted Flint Lock and double set triggers, R Southgate marked patchbox, and a Redfieild peep that he added. I have contemplated either putting everything in a new stock or trying to re-do the old one as it needs some reshaping and or repair, I cant decide which but I would like to shoot it some.
 

[Longknife]

I have a rifle that looks so similar to this one, that was my dads first build. It was a Dixie kit as I recall from the 60's and has a 45 cal. GR Douglass barrel and a (Bedford style) Russ Hamm Warranted Flint Lock and double set triggers, R Southgate marked patchbox, and a Redfieild peep that he added. I have contemplated either putting everything in a new stock or trying to re-do the old one as it needs some reshaping and or repair, I cant decide which but I would like to shoot it some.
  

GRMack.  I would just do the necessary repairs to get it in working condition and not not try to re-shape it. It was the FIRST build by your father, there will NOT be another!!!!!!