Author Topic: Issaic Haines mahogany rifle ? (Read 11962 times)

Wayne Holcombe · « **on:** December 28, 2014, 05:51:11 AM »

Does anyone that has seen this rifle remember if it has a toe plate and if it does what are the particulars on it ?

Majorjoel · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2014, 09:48:06 PM »

The only pictures I have of this longrifle are the very fine color shots from Patrick Hornberger & John Kolar's book "The Lancaster Long Rifle At The Landis Valley Village & Farm Museum." On page 9 the photo of the patchbox side very slightly gives the hint of a short toe plate with one screw or nail showing. I would get a message out to Mr. Hornberger (Eastwind) who is a member of this forum for his knowledgeable details.

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2014, 09:54:57 PM »

It is also shown in Joe Kindig III 's "Artistic Ingrediants of the Longrifle"

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2014, 09:59:32 PM »

John Bivins told me this one of his favorite rifles.

E.vonAschwege · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2014, 07:53:51 PM »

If I recall correctly, this rifle was on display at the Reading museum. I remember thinking that the carving was some of the most exquisite I'd ever seen, especially on an open grain wood (I thought it was walnut). If it's the same rifle we're talking about, then hopefully there will be more photos in the book to be published after next month.

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2014, 09:08:09 PM »

John thought it was walnut as well.It is identified as mahogany in the Lancaster Rifle book.The pictures look mahogany.If I end up attempting one I'll probably use walnut unless I run across some dense mahogany.

eastwind · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2014, 10:06:53 PM »

I wish I could answer this toeplate question on the Haines rifle, having handled it a number of times. But, frankly after handling some 400 rifles of Kindig's I cant remember every detail unless it was very outstanding. This leaves me with the opinion that the toeplate on the Haines rifle was not exceptional. In fact, I recall it being a rather thin brass piece running partway up the stock. I do not recall any engraving.

The rifle is indeed one of the best carved rifles---particularly stunning in the Honduras mahogany so similar to that found on early American high end furniture. Unless, someone knows better this may be the only long rifle stocked in mahogany.

It will be in the new Kindig collection book out in early 2015 with five photos--albeit none show the toeplate.

Wish I could offer more ...

Patrick Hornberger

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2014, 10:29:18 PM »

Thanks.That should be enough.Looking forward to the book.

Karl Kunkel · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2014, 05:54:10 AM »

Patrick,

Please let us know when the book comes out.

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2015, 12:10:22 AM »

Mr.Hornberger,
Can we buy the book through you or do we need to get in touch with the Reading museum ?

eastwind · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2015, 02:14:21 AM »

TO ALL: Yes--you can certainly buy the Kindig book from me--my company EASTWIND PUBLISHING is the publisher/distributor. In effect the Reading Museum will buy them from Eastwind and sell to you....so either way works. The price of $70.00 + $5.00 shipping in USA is our price---Reading should sell at same price (but they don't have to).

Checks/MO orders to
Eastwind Publishing
4302 Baildon Road
Trappe, MD 21673

galamb · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2015, 01:27:14 AM »

Just had a look at my "go to" wood supplier for a price on S. American Mahogany.

For 12/4 (3" - no 2" or 2 1/2" listed) Pattern Grade Mahogany it is listed @ $17.05 a board foot.

When I buy a "chunk" for a typical longrifle with a 42" barrel I would get a 10" wide by 5' long (4.2 board feet for every inch of thickness).

In this case, 4.2 x 3" = 12.6 bf x 17.05 - that's 220 bucks for the plank.

Now that might sound reasonable if you are used to buying "stock blanks" that have been selected for grain etc by the dealer and then roughly cut them in the shape of a rifle (kinda sorta).

When you "self-serve" you can spend a lot of time picking through planks looking for the right grain/orientation, flaws etc, laying paper patterns to see if it will fit around that bad spot etc.

In comparison, I can get (from the same source) the equivalent of a grade 4 or 5 piece of curly red maple for 60 bucks - so the mahogany is almost 4X the cost of a super nice maple blank.

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:53:02 AM »

That's not too bad,the bragging rights should be worth that much.I've got some quarter sawn maple I got from Wallace Gusler about 17 or 18 years ago that should be worth that much.But to have a mahogany Haines now that is really sweet.I wonder who is going to be the first ?

galamb · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2015, 06:45:49 AM »

Mahogany is not super horrible to work with unless it's quarter-sawn which can be splintery (if that's a word) - get a lot of tear-outs due to grain running all over the place.

The biggest danger is the sawdust. Some have a nasty reaction. Have read that it is somewhat toxic to breath (more than other hardwoods - all of which are not healthy to breathe).

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:04:33 AM »

I think walnut falls into the same category.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2015, 07:50:52 PM »

I make my patterns out of 1/8" plexiglas. Then it is a simple matter of positioning the pattern on the wood for grain flow, inclusions, knots, mineral deposits, etc. I don't think $220 is a lot to pay for something special in a gun stock blank. Honduras mahogany is beautiful wood.

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:32:03 PM »

With the two books already out that show the Haines mahogany rifle and the masterpiece book coming out soon,there should be enough info to make a fair interpretation of this rifle.

Wayne Holcombe · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2015, 01:58:25 AM »

What is a good source for stock size mahogany ?

JV Puleo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2015, 04:16:13 AM »

In all likelihood it is made from the now virtually extinct variety that was native to Honduras. The wood that is commonly sold today as mahogany, albeit a related species, is much softer. The original type was very heavy and dense... in fact the easiest way to detect faked 18th century mahogany furniture is that it isn't heavy enough. I believe the tree isn't actually extinct but there are so few of them to be found that, when it is harvested, it is extremely expensive... at least I was told this by someone in the antique furniture business not long ago.

I made a stock for an Allin Conversion out of the commonly available type when I was in Jr. High School. It seems a long time ago now that a student could make a rifle in the school wood shop. It didn't come out very good (although I got an A). Just about every male teacher and education department official (most of whom were WWII veterans) stopped in at some time to see it! It was very splintery.

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Author Topic: Issaic Haines mahogany rifle ? (Read 11962 times)

galamb

galamb