Author Topic: Soddy-Daisy rifles (Read 14401 times)

okawbow · « **on:** January 05, 2015, 06:24:37 AM »

Does anyone know what time period would be correct for a Soddy-Daisey area flintlock rifle?

I'd like to make a rifle that my ancestor might have carried into Illinois, from eastern Tennessee, in 1823.

Spelling fixed

WadePatton · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:43:57 AM »

...Which shares Hamilton Co. with Chattanooga. It's Southeast TN, a long way yet from what i call the Far East TN, where most of the "TN" style gets it's documentation.

Don't we have a SoddyD or two in the photo collection here? Maybe some dates discussion there. I certainly don't know. If i recall correctly (IIRC) they are quite like the UPEast guns.

I'll hushup now, let some real gun history majors* speak up.

*I'm yet a freshman.

flinchrocket · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2015, 07:47:42 AM »

I'm not trying to change your mind on the style of rifle that they might have carried because anything is
possible. The major route to the Midwest from eastern Tennessee would have been the Cumberland Gap,
which is the opposite direction from the Soddy- Daisy school of rifle making. There is an excellent
article on Tennessee rifles by Robin Hale ( American Society of Arms Collectors ) . Also, if they were in
east Tennessee, they possibly came through SW Virginia or North Carolina. The list of rifles they could
have had is endless. Bean, Gross,John and Elisha Bull were some of the east Tennessee rifle makers .

okawbow · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2015, 03:51:03 PM »

Quote from: flinchrocket on January 05, 2015, 07:47:42 AM

I'm not trying to change your mind on the style of rifle that they might have carried because anything is
possible. The major route to the Midwest from eastern Tennessee would have been the Cumberland Gap,
which is the opposite direction from the Soddy- Daisy school of rifle making. There is an excellent
article on Tennessee rifles by Robin Hale ( American Society of Arms Collectors ) . Also, if they were in
east Tennessee, they possibly came through SW Virginia or North Carolina. The list of rifles they could
have had is endless. Bean, Gross,John and Elisha Bull were some of the east Tennessee rifle makers .

Actually, the family history mentions South Carolina, and the Chattanooga area, as possible areas the Jones family lived before buying land in southern Illinois. I don't think they settled down in any one place for any length of time, until coming to Illinois. They were fairly well off for the time, and could afford good guns. I'm sure they came well armed, as the area was still inhabited by Indians and large wild game.

I have a parts set that would look right for a Soddy-Daisy rifle. I just don't know if it would be likely that that style was common by 1823 or so.

flinchrocket · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:47:24 PM »

I would guess that style was being built by 1823. I haven't researched any gunsmiths from that area, but
I would think your pretty safe to build a Soddy-daisy flintlock for that time period. Jerry

okieboy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:09:28 PM »

Hamilton County was formed in 1819. Bledsoe County (Pikeville) was formed in 1807. So, it is possible that flintlock rifles were made there. However, the style that people refer to as "Soddy-Daisy" (more properly "Soddy-Daisy-Pikeville") is a late target (over the log shooting) style. A more advanced collector can correct me if need be, but what I am saying is that a flint rifle from that area would be earlier than what we describe as Soddy-Daisy style. So, a flint Soddy-Daisy wouldn't look like a Soddy-Daisy.
Respectfully, it is your build, do what satisfies you, but first go through Jerry Nobles' "Notes on Southern Rifles" and you will know a lot more about southern rifles. I have been going through them, but one of my volumes is somewhere else; if I find a flintlock Soddy in it I will let you know. Volume One shows a great flintlock bear gun on page 148 that may be similar to what you are after, but it does not have the classic Soddy deep crescent buttplate, in fact it has no buttplate at all.
A Soddy-Daisy flint rifle irregardless of historical correctness would still be attractive looking, much like an East Tennessee bear rifle; not like those halfstock Hawken and Vincent rifles with a flintlock ignition.
This family history inspiration sounds like a fun project, I hope you update us as it moves forward.

okawbow · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:31:21 PM »

This is what I had in mind.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2302.0

BillPac · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:55:14 PM »

There are two Soddy rifles on this web site, both are flint. I can not speak to the idea of them not being original flint.
I looked at an original Soddy rifle at last years show at The Museum of Appalachia, it was flint.
I do not have great knowledge of these rifles so all I can report is what I have seen.
BillP

Meteorman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2015, 12:01:07 AM »

This link
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=13988.0

and the link within it, from Ken G, have some info.
Ken G is knowledgeable about Soddy-Daisys.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2015, 01:39:27 AM »

Quote from: okawbow on January 05, 2015, 11:31:21 PM

This is what I had in mind.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2302.0

That's a great old gun. If that's what you want to build go for it. I'd not worry over much about what the ancestors brought with them.

I built a jeager for a local guy who's family came from ohio to Iowa in 1845. They bought the jeager in Ohio before they left there.....who would have thunk it? Anything is possible.

flinchrocket · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:57:48 AM »

Quote from: okawbow on January 05, 2015, 11:31:21 PM

This is what I had in mind.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2302.0

Would someone care to date the rifle that okawbow is looking at? Thanks Jerry

WElliott · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2015, 04:21:49 AM »

The rifle pictured elsewhere on ALR that you are considering building is a classic Soddy, I would think. Although the slim Soddy rifles seem stylistically later than the typical flintlock period, it seems that in the South flintlocks were still often used on up to the mid 19th century, if not later. However, I would think that a classic Soddy style would be unlikely in 1823. My only advice, is build what you like.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:56:57 PM »

Here is a Soddy-Daisy made by Jack DuPrey. Pretty nice rifle.
Dennis

okawbow · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2015, 08:50:30 PM »

My build will not be totally PC for the Soddy- Daisy area, but I like the architecture of those rifles. I'm using a 3/4" barrel, 42" long. I made a hand forged butt plate and trigger guard that look correct, but because I scaled the trigger guard down to look right with a 3/4" barrel; it doesn't work with double triggers. I will use a single set trigger.

I'm using an L&R Manton flintlock, that is small enough to look right. I'll also use a maple stock blank, because that is what I happen to have. It is only 1 3/4" wide, but looks like it will work out fine for the slim rifle I'm making. It should look ok with a dark enough stain.

Daniel · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:31:52 PM »

I really love the look and feel of a Soddy Daisy. I was fortunate to be able to buy one from Jack
that looks like the one in your pic Dennis. A great shooter.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:56:22 PM »

Quote

I really love the look and feel of a Soddy Daisy. I was fortunate to be able to buy one from Jack
that looks like the one in your pic Dennis. A great shooter.

I think if you go to Art's Contempoary Builders blog and do a search on DuPrey you will see other photos. Probably search on Soddy Daisy and find others.
Dennis

okawbow · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2015, 05:50:05 AM »

So....I've been busy this month, and have my 30 cal. Squirrel rifle "in the white". The barrel is a Burton, 3/4" slight swamp. The lock is an L&R Manton. I had the maple blank I cut from a plank 30 years ago. I made all the iron hardware.

I plan on browning, and maybe boiling the metal parts. I may do a light yellow stain, and then violin varnish on the stock.

Sorry about the poor quality picture. I'll try and borrow a good camera when finished.

30 cal. Tennessee in white by okawbow, on Flickr

WadePatton · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2015, 07:12:03 AM »

Quote from: okawbow on January 31, 2015, 05:50:05 AM

So....I've been busy this month, and have my 30 cal. Squirrel rifle "in the white". The barrel is a Burton, 3/4" slight swamp. The lock is an L&R Manton. I had the maple blank I cut from a plank 30 years ago. I made all the iron hardware...

Has that cat been playing in the coal pile? I call (one of) mine SFP for "Sooty Footy Puddy" as he's marked up similar.

Grab a few more pics when you get a chance. Looks good

from the blimp.

okawbow · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2015, 05:21:07 PM »

Lots of work to do yet. Any suggestions appreciated.

image by okawbow, on Flickr

WadePatton · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2015, 07:46:31 PM »

Looks like you've got it going all the right way. The only thing that catches my eye is the rear trigger and that's mostly the upper part. Just not what i'm used to seeing. But i've not seen much compared to others of these halls.

Are you going to "beat it up" or leave it "pristine"? Once you get it finalized that is.

okawbow · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2015, 09:20:00 PM »

Thanks, Wade.
I'll take a look at the triggers, and do some work on them. I see what you mean about the rear trigger.

As for the finish; I'll probably do a little "aging", but nothing that puts dents or dings in on purpose.

flinchrocket · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2015, 06:30:43 AM »

That looks pretty good. I like the long ramrod pipes. How long are they? Your homemade triggerguard
and buttpeice looks good also.

okawbow · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2015, 07:45:59 PM »

The pipes are 2" long, same as the nose cap. The pipes are for a 9/32" ramrod.

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Author Topic: Soddy-Daisy rifles (Read 14401 times)

Meteorman