FLINTLOCK PARTS DIMENSIONS /BLUEPRINTS

[Acer Saccharum]

CHARLY, please refer to this thread: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=33811.0

There is a lot of information on building locks there.

[CHARLY]

You can't copy .pdf files off the screen.   They could be any size.   They MUST be printed in order for the size to be accurate.   

If you don't have a printer,  I don't mind printing some pages off for you and mailing them to you.   Just e-mail me directly at melliott@markelliottva.com with your print requests and your physical mailing address. 

sorry Mark ----yes -I do have a printer ---if you send me PDF  files with flintlock dimensions
--I can print them via ADOBE PDF  download ---sorry forgot I had ADOBE --
Please send whateva you have --
 to
carlwinter0@gmail.com--
really appreciate--pensioners cant be choosy  --thanku

really good idea --hope it works --very kind of you__--regards C

[CHARLY]

For the REDavis Jaeger Flint Lock 17A  http://www.redaviscompany.com/0017.html

I take it you probably want metric.

Lock plate: length: 152mm thickness:2.1mm
Frizzen: height: 40.6mm width at base 23mm
Height of cock: 82.3mm base to top of screw
What else do you need?

Thanku  Chris ---now wer,e, getting somewhere --inches are also fine --
err --- but  I see you wrote 2.1 mm thick plate for lock ?
2.1 mm is very very thin ---I have made mine 4mm plate --still a bit flimsy
if you look at James  Everett,s side plate --WOW ! ITS  massively thick -!
(sadly again --no dimensions)

[CHARLY]

For the REDavis Jaeger Flint Lock 17A  http://www.redaviscompany.com/0017.html

I take it you probably want metric.

Lock plate: length: 152mm thickness:2.1mm
Frizzen: height: 40.6mm width at base 23mm
Height of cock: 82.3mm base to top of screw
What else do you need?

thanku so much Chris --
 prefer inches ---if you can send me --
I see lock plate 2.1 mm ? --something wrong --that's way too flimsy
 ---if you look at James Everrets side plate fotos ---ITS MASSIVELY THICK !
 I could not believe it --must be 6 -8 mm thick cast iron !
 my sideplates I made --@ 3.5 mm  is still  too thin /wobbly --but I may b wrong

can you send me fotos with those  Dimensions in INCHES?
 I NEED  all spring lengths /thickness /type of steel -how its made
 tumbler -every conceivable size from all angles would be great --sear
friizzen and hammer --I really need 3 D  images of all parts --with every dimension in

but am asking too much --apologies --
and posting fotos on this forum ---I give up
thanku  again --appreciate the help enormously--regards-- C

[CHARLY]

Heres 3 pic's from Brockways book, it's not much but shows dim. for a medium shotgun lock.   Can you order books from Amazon.com and pay in your money ?  ...Tom


CLICK TO SEE ALL 3

WOW - nice book sir ---superb drawings WITH DIMENSIONS ! stunning Tom
can only look and dream ---thankyou
( I suppose sending via PDF  adobe  to me is  painstaking?)
 thanku so much --
  Charly

[CHARLY]

I have a book entitled "How to Build Your Own Flintlock" by George Lauber.  It contains 46 plates of dimensional drawings for the lock and about 6 blueprints for rifle and pistol stock design.  Best book I have ever found for those details.  Too much to copy and its been out of print for ages.

NOW --THATS THE BOOK --- ASTOUNDING DETAIL --
 I  WAS SENT A  few tantalising glimpses of  George  Laubers drawings --
with every single tiny dimension --nothing is overlooked
 a British muzzle loading forum sent me his name-- USA  publisher /price

cost is over 240US $---  plus post ---can only dream --
wonder if its possible to PDF  the images /drawings only --with those amazing dimensions--
to me in  Darkest  Africa --would be eternally grateful?
 regards  Charly

[James Wilson Everett]

Charly,

You may benefit if you can get a copy of the Track of the Wolf catalog.  The photos of store-bought locks are excellent here, and they are exactly full scale, too.  The photos show both the outside & inside of the locks and, sometimes, the individual parts of the lock.  I believe that their website is trackofthewolf.com.

Jim

[Chris Treichel]

Let me re-measure that lockplate... I probably left something off... using the old caliper not one of those new electronic dial measure thingies. 

[Pete G.]

The Track of the Wolf catalog is available online. Most parts are photographed full scale. Each page is stored as a .pdf, which can be downloaded, printed and measured.

Don't forget that almost all of the original guns that we emulate were built without a blueprint or dimensions.

[Chris Treichel]

[gunmaker]

Charly, see my post just now on making lock from scratch topic.....Hope it makes sence............Tom

[T*O*F]

I have a few questions:

1.  If you are "in the bush" as you say, how do you have internet access?

2.  Why are you making this lock...to fit an existing gun or for use building a new gun?

3.  There are umpteen different varieties of flint locks and each one is different.  You need to pick one that fits its intended purpose, otherwise all the information already given is meaningless.  Which lock do you need to replicate for your intended purpose?

[CHARLY]

 location  ;-- Lake Tanganyika -- upper Zambezi /Luangwa valley --
 northern  Zambia --western province
hunting fishing most of the country -lived here 45 yrs--taxidermist /wildlife artist-

 now retired -live near  Swaziland --
 internet very slow /erratic --
 cant find any flint ---- anyone knows  a website selling flint for locks ?
( not many volcanoes or late stone age sites to dig in  around here)

regards  C

[CHARLY]

 Hi  Robert --
 lived in  Northern Zambia 45 yrs --hunted every province --taxidermy was my trade--
lake Tanganyika was my home for awhile --then upper Zambezi --
malaria nearly terminated my hunting in swamps ---Luangwa  -confiscated  many  old Portuguese muzzleloaders from poachers --but the locks were damaged /welded /modified
( still had original bronze engraved parts )--

 retired -- live  near  Southern Mozambique /Swaziland
 painted for a living b4 retiring ---
my website ----
carlwinter.blogspot.com  ---used to exhibit  London /Houston ---Montreal galleries
---nowadays --trying to build a bad flintlock -replica by guesswork !-hopeless!

ok --keep well--( have missionary friends ) from  Zambia --live in   IDAHO  -  Nice people
we still keep in touch --

[CHARLY]

 Thank

Charly,

You may benefit if you can get a copy of the Track of the Wolf catalog.  The photos of store-bought locks are excellent here, and they are exactly full scale, too.  The photos show both the outside & inside of the locks and, sometimes, the individual parts of the lock.  I believe that their website is trackofthewolf.com.

Jim

you Chris

   HI JAMES --
 YOUR  work is legendary ---I was stunned by the amazing fotos you showed on photobucket -
 cutting each part from a hunk of rusty wrought iron ---is beyond my skill --
 each painstaking part you have replicated /created a mind blowing  lock --

I am still reeling ---had no idea it was so difficult --
but I will soldier on --practise /improvise -
thanku for such inspiring work --please show how you made the mainspring ?
what puzzles me ---200 yrs ago --no Bessemer converter --no true fused hi -carbon steel alloy !
so how did those wrought iron springs last so long ? amazing ---must do some serious research -
 regards C

 lovely workmanship ---did you build this beauty ? 
I can only dream --
have no idea how the flashpan --is made -and how it bolts on to the lock plate ?
I need a top view of how the flashpan /frizzen all fit together --onto the lock plate !
all views I get are always side on --never top view --
only drawings show plan /top view --but not how they look in 3d reality --

back to guesswork --
nice photos --thanku ---( cant read the calipers --a bit dark --is that in mm ?)
really appreciate -- C

[helwood]

Charly,     Flint isn't ignious rock.  The Spanish also didn't have a good supply of flint.  They had a great supply of iron pirite for wheel locks.  Flint is also in the same family as Chert sorry is I don't have spelling correct.  Found alomg river beds not sure how to identify it. Later, Hank

[PPatch]

Charly you're one $#*! of a wildlife painter. Nice work by anyone's mark. I have a feeling that with your eye you will master this lock building.

Good luck, the knowledge you seek is on this site. When you determine what size flints you need they are available from the US or UK. One US source is Track of the Wolf. You can find those suppliers with a simple internet search.

dave

[CHARLY]

  Thankyou so much PPATCH --    for such a nice comment on my paintings !
I am truly flattered --
sadly --my eyesight at 65 -- is precarious ---but am determined to build a decent flint /lock /
muzzle loader -- before I go blind !

 this forum has many pleasant surprises from really decent people
 one superb chap in POLAND  has sent me a  PDF  of a1776 German lock --all details /dimensions /blueprints --- albeit --in  GERMAN !

What a unselfish person --!
I was  stunned by his generosity ---he is also a master lock builder --
so I am learning from great instructors here --- ans worldwide --better than any university I believe ---a thousand different lecturers to choose from ---heaven !
(a contrast to a rather nasty a South  AFRICAN   black powder forum --
--the cynical baboon gallery has great fun poking /insulting novices --
) beware ----steer clear of them ---very hostile lot --- shameful --scary ---

 so thankyou again for all the assistance and advice ---truly inspirational
regards -
 Charly-  ( Chris is sending me my first flints ---so I can fire this monster I have created !)

 

[Acer Saccharum]

CHARLY, look for the topics posted by Raszpla, and you will get a lot of good information. Raz builds wheel locks, and his English is not so good, but his workmanship and illustrations have no language barriers.

[44-henry]

Dimensioned drawings are good to a point, but only as long as you have the ability to measure and recreate those dimensions. Any good quality lock has a lot of organic shapes that would be nearly impossible to dimension. Photographs that you can accurately scale in a simple CAD program like AutoCAD (or one of the free clone versions) can give you the ability to trace outlines that can be printed and used for patterns and give you a starting point for the working components.

What you really need is a good lock to study and copy, if you cannot acquire that the next best thing would be a 3D scan of a lock that has been printed on a 3D printer with decent resolution. Unfortunately the consumer grade printers on the market don't produce parts with enough accuracy to be useful and the pro versions that do cost more than a good SUV.

[CHARLY]

JIM EVERETT --- truly the master --
need help--!

please Bwana --
can you remove the flash pan & frizzen --from one of your superb locks--
 ---just show me how the detachable flash pan piece attaches to the lock plate ?

 all views seem to be side on ---never from the top --(really wish I had a dismantled actual tangible --lock bits to work from ---trying to imagine a 3D top view is puzzling !
have no idea how to construct that one piece ---
need a 3D  view --is it riveted  or bolted to the plate /frame?
the frizzen MUST   be offset ?  its hinge position on the back of the flash pan
is  ALWAYS  hidden in fotos ---how it attaches is hard to see  made several huge mistakes!

 appreciate separate fotos --of how they all fit together--
this is one difficult part --the rest is straightforward
thanku
 

[Mark Elliott]

Only Germanic locks had separate pans.   English lock plates were forged with the pans integral.    I had a post recently about how that was done.  

Here is the link to that post:  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=33301.msg319413#msg319413

[James Wilson Everett]

Mzee Charly,

Mimi siye bwana, mimi nami ni mwanadamu.  Yesu ni Bwana.

For the wazungu:

Charly, here are some photos of a commercially available detatchable pan.





[

Here are some photos of the detatchable pan on the gunlock I am building in the tutorial, it is only about 1/2 finished.  Gosh, hand forged work looks so rough under magnification!







Here is how it fits onto the lockplate.  It anchors under the lump forward and a screw at the rear.






Jim

[CHARLY]

 YEOW !
  Thanku --ifingi --sana --bwana  JIM --
 
 FOTOS from the MASTER !-- I AM  truly humbled---
 never expected such close -ups ---!

 no more mystery /guessing -- trashing /smashing poorly built locks
 keep getting the geometry wrong --( my  frizzen  /cock hammer crash into each other
-prematurely ---
 hammer was too close to frizzen --plus incorrect arc /radius of hammer ---

all this because I kept estimating distance between frizzen hinge and hammer centre pivot

just got it all wrong
 I really need blueprints badly ---
 exact patterns of each component --I can trace onto plywood
 create every thing in wood --so the  geometry is precise -- see how they interact--

got so many pdf locks dimensions fotos / images from all over the world
 but -- got it all confused --as a SILER  lock --cannot be altered to fit
 other lock SIDE PLATES -- UNLESS  u are a veteran lock builder --
    Mark  Elliot has kindly sent me templates /exact blueprints in the post !
sensed my problem right away -- some really great instructors here ==




 so now I can construct mock ups in wood -b4 creating havoc in mild steel
  AT  least --now I can see exactly how that  flashpan is bolted on /sits on top of the plate
 ---(does not sit dead centre -or to one side --
 its just a little--off dead centre of the side plate ?-got to align it from top view --with frizzen hammer --( I am @!*% sure that cock hammer has a offset or leans inwards --how else can it   line up with the frizzen ---?? the top view of everything wacking into everything else is
 asking too much --unless I can find another poacher --& borrow his lock (fat chance )
that's the problem-- seeing a tangible actual lock --  feeling /touching a real lock ! ----maybe now solved --guessing was really stupid of me --

   MUCH  appreciated  James !--superb fotos --- your kindness wont, be forgotten
( few novices get such special treatment from the master )
regards --  Carl--
( ps -just figured out --thanks  to  Mark  Elliot --
 only a glass hard frizzen produces sparks )
got tonnes of flint from a huge quarry nearby ----what luck !
thought it was not true flint --until I struck the side of a file as  Mark advised
 WOW !  -- took time lapse fotos --spectacular shower !
pity I cannot figure out this wacky post fotos via photobucket nightmare --
one problem solved !
 



 

[James Wilson Everett]

Charly,

Here are some photos of a flash pan with the arm to support the frizzen pivot screw.  This is a bit more difficult to make that those pictured in previous responses.  When you make one like this it is prudent to make the support arm  good bit thicker than you think is necessary, so it would appear to require a rather thin frizzen pivot thickness.   It is very easy to adjust the arm after installation so as to match the pivot thickness and give a really good fit.  Also, in the case of this particular pan I used an old original flash pan grinder to cut the pan recess.  This old tool worked OK, but gave the somewhat odd shape to the recess.  This old tool will stay in the collection, but I probably will not use it again.

Jim