Chamber's Classic Ketland Flintlock

[Chunker119]

I am curious as to the performance of these locks. Didn't Chamber's recently down size the lock plate/overall size? I am building a flint bench gun and need a fast hefty lock to do the job! Thanks for any input or advice.

Colton Fleetwood

[gunmaker]

Don't know about plate, I heard the cock was slimmed down, either way it's about the fastest most reliable lock going right now...

[Bob Roller]

I am curious as to the performance of these locks. Didn't Chamber's recently down size the lock plate/overall size? I am building a flint bench gun and need a fast hefty lock to do the job! Thanks for any input or advice.

Colton Fleetwood

Fast and hefty are a contradiction.Lynton McKenzie had a Fenton 16 gage target
rifle that was heavy and used a flint lock made for a pocket pistol.The idea was
that that tiny lock wouldn't jolt the rifle when the frizzen opens and was as fast
as a caplock.A highly tuned small Siler would work or maybe if you can find one of mine
made on the L&R small Manton external parts.

Bob Roller

[Chunker119]

I read a previous post and found out what was changed in this lock by Chamber's. The cock was slimmed down, not the plate/size. And to your point Bob, I believe the "smaller lock" theory to have merit especially in a light bench or offhand gun, but in this heavy bench gun I am preparing to build, I just think a bigger lock to be the better choice especially since the gun will weigh in at 50+ lbs.

Thanks for the comments and keep 'em coming,
Colton Fleetwood

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I know there are a lot of folks who pan the L & R Ashmore/Hawken flintlock, but IMHO, it is one of the fastest most reliable locks out there.

[hortonstn]

talk to troy roupe at stonewall creek outfitters he used to shoot a heavy bench flintlock
he can probably help

[Mark Elliott]

Do you mean the Late Ketland?   If so,  I have used a lot of them including on my personal rifles and have had no reason to complain.   I don't think you would want to use the Early Ketland on a bench gun.    That is a big lock and not as fast as the Late Ketland or Golden Age.  You can make them all faster with a bushing or bearing for the main tumbler axle and a little tuning.   The Late Ketland is now shipping with a new cock that is slimmer with an improved geometry.   The old Late Ketland cocks where a little too fat for a late period lock and Jim had meant to do something about that for a long time.   

If I wanted a really sophisticated flint lock,  I would do like Bob and build one with new internals  including all the bells and whistles on one of the L&R late English locks.   L&R has a number of good late flint locks as far as the externals are concerned.   It is a shame the internals are not as good as the originals.   Somebody should make a replacement casting set for those internals, but that would probably cost a years salary and most likely nobody is going to do that.   

[Larry Pletcher]

Colton is correct about the changes. Only the cock was changed.  Jim and I timed both before and after versions at Friendship this fall.  We timed the original setup; then Jim swapped in the new cock and we retimed the lock.  Both versions worked well, and we saw times statistically insignificant. 

Jim told me the change was because he felt a smaller cock was more in line historically.  IIRC Gary Brumfield was a part of that discussion.  I own an earlier version of the Late Ketland and will not bother to upgrade.

Regards,
Pletch

[Ky-Flinter]

More on the new Late Ketland here.....

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29685.0

[Dennis Glazener]

but in this heavy bench gun I am preparing to build, I just think a bigger lock to be the better choice especially since the gun will weigh in at 50+ lbs.

To each his own but I have not seen a larger lock that felt as fast as the Late Ketland, Bailes etc. My large locks seem to take forever to go off compared to the late Ketlands that I normally use. In benchrest everything possible is done to reduce differences in shot to shot, a fast lock, even on a 50 lb rifle, fast ignition has to be somewhat of an advantage over a slower one.
Dennis

[Bob Roller]

but in this heavy bench gun I am preparing to build, I just think a bigger lock to be the better choice especially since the gun will weigh in at 50+ lbs.

To each his own but I have not seen a larger lock that felt as fast as the Late Ketland, Bailes etc. My large locks seem to take forever to go off compared to the late Ketlands that I normally use. In benchrest everything possible is done to reduce differences in shot to shot, a fast lock, even on a 50 lb rifle fast ignition has to be somewhat of an advantage over a slower one.
Dennis

 The Manton 16 bore rifle that Tom Dawson had went off with no real perceptible
ignition lag.I have had reports from people I made the Bailes/Nock/Manton locks for
tell me the same thing.That type of performance by a lock must be tied directly to a
properly installed vent that comes as close as possible to the charge in the breech.
The fastest lock can't overcome a #50 hole drilled thru 5/16"thick barrel wall.

Bob Roller

[armsmaker]

Excellent reply Bob. I have built (Jim let me build them for a while) and used the Late Ketland since 2005+- and have found it to be excellent when properly installed with proper touch hole design.
Wall thickness is the big deal here on any barrel. If the charge has to travel too far, the time to ignition is ruined. The charge has to be brought to the pan as close as possible. Even so, big bench rifles have super thick walls and sometimes require the making of a custom touch hole liner. The best compliments I enjoy is when somebody does a doubletake at the range and asks "was that a caplock? Man that wuz FAST"
Gotta luv that!
Susie

[Bob Roller]

Excellent reply Bob. I have built (Jim let me build them for a while) and used the Late Ketland since 2005+- and have found it to be excellent when properly installed with proper touch hole design.
Wall thickness is the big deal here on any barrel. If the charge has to travel too far, the time to ignition is ruined. The charge has to be brought to the pan as close as possible. Even so, big bench rifles have super thick walls and sometimes require the making of a custom touch hole liner. The best compliments I enjoy is when somebody does a doubletake at the range and asks "was that a caplock? Man that wuz FAST"
Gotta luv that!
Susie

 Susie,
 Thanks for the back up on my comments about lock speed and flash holes.I have made up
a few Late Ketlands using Jim's external parts and that is one FINE lock.It's a fine lock
as it is but the linked mechanisms and forged mainsprings are an improvement.
Take care of yourself,girl.That stroke was like having the oil pressure light come on in
your car.You have recovered and the warning was clear.Bill Large found that out when he
had a brief,transient stroke and passed out and he tried to catch himself on the rack gear of
a rifling machine and the thing was running and ran over his hand.
Take care and stay warm.

Bob Roller