Fowler on Gunbroker

[Avlrc]

What do you think about this one?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=469117609

[rich pierce]

A dandy.  It is are to find one that is original flint, hasn't been stretched or had the fore stock replaces, etc.  It is relatively plain but looks to me to be a great example of a HVF.

[debnal]

I emailed the seller and asked for pictures of the "repair " in the forearm. I think anyone who is interested in this gun should do the same.
Al

[Eric Kettenburg]

I would want to see that lock up-close and personal...  otherwise very cool piece.

[debnal]

the seller has added some close up pictures of the lock.
Al

[Avlrc]

I thought the carving around the tang looked to good.

[E.vonAschwege]

Something about it makes me think the lock is a very well done reconversion.  Certainly the top jaw and screw are replacements.  The wear on the plate behind the cock to me indicates that something else has been in that location before.  Might just be the cock that's new - I'd want to see the appearance of the barrel as well before making a solid determination. 
-Eric

[Majorjoel]

I will admit about the only thing I know about Hudson Valley fowler's are that they are pretty cool to look at.  From this add on Gunbroker, the seller seems to have put together a pretty professional looking pictorial display package along with what to me seems like a good descriptive on his piece. I once had the pleasure and privilege of seeing and handling several of the best HVF's in the collection of Tom Grinslade. They are definitely an interesting piece of our early history.  Thank you Avirc for bringing this to my attention.  

[Avlrc]

I emailed the seller and asked for pictures of the "repair " in the forearm. I think anyone who is interested in this gun should do the same.
Al

He mentions the fore-stock "upper 1/3" having repair and shows it in pictures 13 & 14.

[Avlrc]

Well someone got a pretty gun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=469956056

[wildcatter]

I have to ask, as I am not familiar with HVF rifles, is that a good price or High or Low? I know its what a person is willing to pay but the rifle looks to be very nice.

[debnal]

The fairness of the price is a complicated answer. The forestock apparently has been stretched. This then brings into question whether the barrel too has been stretched. Next the originality of the flintlock ignition is problematic. The fowler is pleasing and would look great on a wall. If the wood and barrel have been stretched, I'd say the price might have been a little high. If just the forestock was stretched, the price seems fair. If the fowler had been totally original, then the price would have been a bargain. JMHO
Al

[rich pierce]

Not sure about current prices on HVFs but that seems like a pretty good price.  Imagined trying to get a Rev. War longrifle for that. Fowling pieces can be a great way to get important early American guns if they appeal to the collector.

I agree with Al.  A great many of our favorite famous rifles have been reconverted, wood added, any amount of restoration work done, but that is less favored now compared to 30, 40, 60 years ago.  Just recently we've started to see those well done restorations impact prices realized for longrifles.

[debnal]

Rich,
Good point. When I first started collecting Kentucky rifles (many years ago) the fact that a nice rifle had been restored was not a big deal. I was told then by a prominent collector that the only important part of a rifle was the butt stock. I have seen rifles that came out as only a butt stock sell for big bucks even though they had the forestock, barrel, lock etc restored. That seems to have changed, in view of the last several Julia auctions.
I have changed my collecting tastes to colonial smoothbores. They used to be very affordable, and, to some extent, still are.
Al

[JTR]

Well I'll disagree a little bit. I think the new lower price has more to do with the shear number of guns being sold and flooding the market, than it does with restoration. True, some of those guns had varying degrees of restoration, but probably the vast majority of 'fine' Kentucky's have had something done to them, including those in the oldest, biggest and best collections.

If you want to collect only unrestored guns, your collection is going to be mighty small, or filled with 1850's clunks.

Also, pre-2008, these guns shot up in value right along with housing, vintage cars and art, and all dropped in value with the economic crunch. Since the economy has started to pick up a bit, cars and art have taken off again, big time! The guns, probably due to the much smaller buyer base, hasn't recovered, and probably won't to the previous high levels. Then toss in that the average Kentucky Rifle collector probably has at least some grey hair and the young guys are a distinct minority, it bods well for the young guys getting great deals on some of the great guns down the road.

John

[E.vonAschwege]

it bods well for the young guys getting great deals on some of the great guns down the road.

John

Part of me hopes that may be the case, as I'd love to add some special pieces to my small collection, but another part of me hopes the prices rebound as well. 

As one of the younger guys (Just turned 30), I'm constantly trying to educate and garner interest amongst my general for longrifles as pieces of Art and History.  My own job security depends on those who see these and appreciate originals and contemporary works as a form of art, with loads of intrinsic value as historical pieces as well. 

Poorly done restoration will devalue the piece - there were plenty of pieces at Julia's last auction with some very ugly restoration work.  A well done and documented repair though will increase the value from what the piece looked like prior - especially if it was broken in significant ways.  A lot of the best pieces in the books have restoration and glue holding them together - far better than now than the wrecks they were when they were found.  I don't mind restoration if tastefully done.  I do mind heavy amounts of paint, new finish, and questionable/shoddy workmanship. 
-Eric

[wildcatter]

I'm in the middle between young and old in this genre, and feel the same way with regards to restoration. If the work was done well, respectfully, and documented to the original then I'm ok with it. I have some rifles that are that way. I do think we will see some dandy rifles come out of collections soon because the 18-25 age range, at least around me, isn't remotely interested in the art of the long rifle. Meaning, instead of being handed down or collected, they will be sold. I hope this site continues to expand so that the history and the provenance of rifles will be preserved and not lost. As much as I love the rifles, I also love the stories that come with them. Maybe we can find a young fellow interested who can find a way to integrate our love of long rifle history and art into some kind of technology to peak the interest of the younger generation.