How to hide a stock repair?

[wvmtnman]

In preperation of making a repair to a rifle I have, I have been playing with Elmers stainable wood glue on scrape pieces of wood.  It seems that no matter how dark I stain the wood, I can still see the glue line.  What would be the best way to hide the repair?  I have heard of people spray painting the area with flat black paint and then sanding it off,  anyone have any experience with this?  Or any other method?
                                                         Thanks, Brian

[Roger Fisher]

Stock repair is a science on to itself and I admit to not being very scientific

[rich pierce]

stain the wood, then glue it, then stain it again after it's all dried.  See if that helps.

[David Veith]

You mite try a touch of paint in the glue. I am talking like what you can pick up on the end of a tooth pick and no more. From there work in some color back in with some thinned out paint to finish blending it in. 
David Veith

[northmn]

One thing that helps is to stain both pieces of wood to be glued so that the glue is applied to the stained area.  A good slow dry epoxy can be stained and used.  One of the problems you will ahve with hiding a repair is that you know it is there. On big nasty breaks like broken wrists and that sort of thing, do not ecpect miracles.

DP

[JTR]

You don't say whether its a new gun with no finish, or one already finished. But either way your glue line needs to be a thin as possible, as glue just doesn't set up with the same texture as the wood.
Below are a couple before and after pics of a John Park rifle broken through the lock area. If you're using a new piece of wood to fill in, be sure the joint line is as tight as possible to minimize the glue line. If it's an old crack, like this gun, clean the crud out of the crack with dental picks or something similar to allow the crack to close completely.
As David mentioned, you can add a tiny bit of paint, flat black or a color close to the finish color in the glue to help conceal the line.
If it's an old or well used gun with dark areas on the finish in the area you're working on, while the glue is still a bit tacky, spray on a little color then let the glue dry completely. Once everything is dry, rub the area with a lint free cloth and you can actually work the paint into the texture of the wood and hide the crack pretty conviencingly.
Needless to say, Practice on some scrap first!










I should note that the last pic that the stock is still in two pieces, but the cracks and nail holes around the side plate mortice have pretty well disappeared.
Work continues on this gun.
John

[wvmtnman]

The repair would be for a new rifle.  The piece I an puting in is very small and hard to see but once found, it sticks out pretty well, at least it does for me.  I do not know how to make the glue line disappear.  I was not sure if I could color that part of the rifle with something to mask the repair becasue no matter how dark I stain it, the glue line is still darker than the wood.  I thought about shellac or any other ideas that would work.
                                                                            Brian

[Black Hand]

Some folks use fine-tipped and brush-tipped artists markers.  With these and a little creativity, you might be able to blend the repair into the background by drawing/painting/scratching in grain and color. 

[bigsky]

For the life of me I can't remember where I just read this (maybe Gun Collector magazine in the bookstore, maybe online?) but there were detailed instructions on making repairs to cracked stocks.  They stained pieces of paper (newsprint) with different dyes and let them dry to find the correct color match to the wood.  Then the paper was sandwiched in the glued (acraglass resin without the fiberglass) crack.  The paper swelled just enough with the glue to fill any very minor voids within the crack, and almost looked like a natural grain when finished.  It looked like it worked pretty slick.  I suppose since it is a wood product, it helped fill and disguise the crack better than glue alone or other fillers.  It has an advantage over sanding dust and glue since it can be stained to match the existing wood before the repair is made.

[Benedict]

I would be hesitant to glue a piece of paper in the glue joint.  Wood turners will often glue a bowl blank to a false bottom with a piece of paper in the joint.  When the bowl is turned it is easy to break the joint through the paper.  Maybe there is a way to prevent this weakness but it seems scary to me.

Bruce

[bigsky]

I guess I can think of a couple of reasons why the paper shim trick might work in this case.  First, the glue used in the magazine article was acraglass resin, so at least the wood to paper bonds should be very strong.  Second, newsprint paper is relatively thin (the article said to use very thin paper) and very porous so would become totally saturated in resin when sandwiched.  I can see the wood fibers in the paper then essentially acting like the glass fibers that you normally add to the acraglass resin so the newsprint might actually produce a stronger joint.  I don't know what kind of glue or paper the wood turners use but I suspect they are different. 

But I could be wrong, I'm just passing along what I read in the article.  It sounds like it's time for an experiment with a couple of blocks of wood.

[keweenaw]

If the piece you are putting back in is very small and fits the place it broke out from perfectly you'll probably have better success with super glue than with wood glue.  You'll need to scrape the surface carefully after it's in to remove any glue that got on the surface.  Depending on where it is you can add a little patina to the finish over the area when you're applying your finish.  A touch of bone black added to the wet finish over the area and carefully almost wiped away will do wonders in hiding things like fine lines.

Tom

[Benedict]

I guess I can think of a couple of reasons why the paper shim trick might work in this case.  First, the glue used in the magazine article was acraglass resin, so at least the wood to paper bonds should be very strong.  Second, newsprint paper is relatively thin (the article said to use very thin paper) and very porous so would become totally saturated in resin when sandwiched.  I can see the wood fibers in the paper then essentially acting like the glass fibers that you normally add to the acraglass resin so the newsprint might actually produce a stronger joint.  I don't know what kind of glue or paper the wood turners use but I suspect they are different. 

But I could be wrong, I'm just passing along what I read in the article.  It sounds like it's time for an experiment with a couple of blocks of wood.

Accraglass resin may make a difference.  My experience is with Titebond.  As long as the paper is completely saturated it might make a difference but if it is not then the paper itself will be a failure point.  Using stained paper does sound like a possibility for hiding the glue joint.

Bruce

[track3]

This may sound crazy but I messed up inlaying a trigger guard while doing my first rifle at Conner Prairie; one of our classmates was a patternmaker for Ford Motor in Detroit and he told me to mix 5 minute epoxy and Hersheys cocoa powder, fill the void, wax the trigger guard so it wouldn't stick and it would be fine. I followed his instructions and you cannot see where I goofed! I guess because the cocoa changed the epoxy color it looks completely natural.

[northmn]

I have always stained the epoxy when I fixed breaks as well as the joint area.  However, 5 minute epoxy is neither as strong as the longer setting stuff and can break down over time.  On a complicated repair it can also set up on you when you don't want it to.  A lot of people have luck with super glue.  I am not one of them. About the only super glue I have found that works pretty fair is the stuff they sell to archers for arrow building.  It also costs quite a bit more.

DP

[Richard Snyder]

I am not sure what "bone black" is.  Can someone enlighten me?

[Acer Saccharum]

Bone black, originally made from charred bone. As opposed to soot from a candle flame. They are both carbon.

Bone black may have been ground fine to be used as a pigment for inks and paints back in the day. I am sure it has been replaced by a more economical or synthetic black.

Acer

[Benedict]

I have always stained the epoxy when I fixed breaks as well as the joint area.  However, 5 minute epoxy is neither as strong as the longer setting stuff and can break down over time.  On a complicated repair it can also set up on you when you don't want it to.  A lot of people have luck with super glue.  I am not one of them. About the only super glue I have found that works pretty fair is the stuff they sell to archers for arrow building.  It also costs quite a bit more.

DP

The "Super Glue" that I use is the stuff that is used for wood turning.  The brand name is "Hot Stuff" and it comes in a bottle that is 1 or 2 oz.  I don't remember what it costs but I got a lot more than is in those little tubes of Super Glue.

Bruce

[keweenaw]

Bone black is still sold, although usually by different names.  Brownell's sells a 4 oz bottle they call Epoxy-black that is really bone black.  Very, very fine powder as opposed to the black paste dye that comes in their kits.  4 oz. is a lifetime supply for about 20 gunsmiths.  Copy machine toner is functionally a perfect substitute although it's a petroleum based carbon black and has a charge on it so that it will stick to the paper and will stick to just about everything else as well.

Tom

[dogcreek]

My stock repairs have so far been limited to walnut. But I've found that Brownell's Acraglas (not the gel, it's too thick) mixed with some of the included brown dye works well. A little dye goes a long way when mixing. It should go without saying that no repair will look good unless the patch piece is an excellent fit. Repairs on radii often are undetectable. Repairs on flatter areas can be a real challenge.

[Dphariss]

In preperation of making a repair to a rifle I have, I have been playing with Elmers stainable wood glue on scrape pieces of wood.  It seems that no matter how dark I stain the wood, I can still see the glue line.  What would be the best way to hide the repair?  I have heard of people spray painting the area with flat black paint and then sanding it off,  anyone have any experience with this?  Or any other method?
                                                         Thanks, Brian

"Tattoo" the area with stain and a needle to make a dark area that looks like some figure in the wood. It is possible to add curl by this process. This from my Mentor, he once dropped a completed stock and broke it pretty badly and had to add a lost piece.
This is why the fit has to be tight and the replacement piece carefully chosen. If the glue line shows it will show, period. But tattoing may make it tough to see.
I have never used stainable glue. I was doing this before it came available (?) and always used plain "yellow" wood glue or sometimes epoxy for some things.
Dan

[G. Elsenbeck]

Where abouts on the rifle is this repair?  Is it in an area that some form of inlay could be used?  Either wire or some other form.  I'm assuming at this point you haven't yet fixed it and your only concern is the anticipated glue line showing?  Perhaps a pic of the affected area would be beneficial here. 
As far as using any of the 5 minute epoxies I've had great success using the stuff in my golf club building and have yet had one club fail due to breakdown of the epoxy and I've been doing this for over 30 years.  Breaks at the hosel yes, with the epoxy no.  Of course with everything else the parts need to be cleaned/abraded and the mixture needs to be 50/50 along with a nice snug fit to begin with. 
gary

[wvmtnman]

The area of the repair is not something that will be noticable.  It is around the lock area, right behind the pan.  In fact most of it will be worked out when the wood in that area is worked down.  I was just wanting to make an unnoticable repair.  But then again, I will always know it is there so I will always notice it.     
It has now been fixed.  I glued it in a curl line and plan on staining that line a little darker and it will be good.  also, after a few shots, it will also be a little discolored from powder residue.
                                              Thanks to all the great replies, Brian