peep sights

[al56]

OK I am getting to where I can't see the rear sight etc.  So I am wondering when were peep sights first used.  I have seen a pic of a Turkish peep sight on a matchlock.  I see Mike Brooks has a sweet jaeger for sale with a peep sight. I don't think they were real common,but some rifles had them.  Any ideas?  Pictures? references?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[jerrywh]

 I have found peep sights on European guns as far back as about 1725

[davec2]

Peep sights have been around since the time of the Roman Empire on ballistas and on cross bows during the middle ages.  This thread may be of some help...

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=27794.0

[Scota4570]

Lollipop sight that substitutes for the tang bolt?

You should not be trying to focus on the rear sight, or the target.  Only the front sight should be clear.  If you think you can see all three you are/were switchiing focus back and forth.  That is not the best way to do it.  

One can do an experiment to prove it.  Put up a target backward so, you can not see the black, just the frame and white paper.  Shoot carefully off a bench.  Guess at the center but don't fret over it.  Concentrate on the front sight, keep it in focus.  Most guys will shoot a smaller group with no target to shoot at.  No kidding!  I was shown this by a great shot and teacher.  
              

[Turtle]

This sighting advise is valid and valuable. An Olympic pistol coach had us try the blank target drill, it works. The big advantage of a peep from my experience is avoiding vertical sight misalignment when excited while hunting. Twice I have shot over deer that appeared suddenly and I had the front sight higher than  the rear.
                                                                                     Turtle

[Pete G.]

Sometimes it helps to widen the rear notch with a screw slotting file. The sights will still be blurry, but with more light on each side of the front blade you can see it a little better.

You should not be trying to focus on the rear sight, or the target.  Only the front sight should be clear.                

Guys less than 60 don't realize what we're are talking about...I didn't fully realize the full extent of the problem; now I do.

[Long John]

I think peep sights are the wrong way to go!

When you are young the eye is capable of shifting focus so fast that the brain integrates three different focal planes into a single image - much like a motion picture.  As you age the ability of the eye to do this begins to decrease and by the time you are 50+ you just can't see sights and target concurrently.  The more light you eye has to work with the smaller the iris gets and the less dynamic focal range you need from the lens of the eye.  That's why older shooters always do better shooting at an uncovered range - more light.

A peep sight reduces the available light reaching the eye.  While it helps you center the front sight it dramatically reduces one's ability to hit under low-light conditions like dusk and dawn.

As a COF I found it necessary to go to what my brother calls "fat-boy" sights.  I made a front sight from a doubled-over silver dollar that is 0.125" thick and filed the rear sight notch wide enough so that the sight picture has clear space on either side of the front sight of equal width as the front sight.  This gives my eye maximum amount of light to work with.  The sights are cut in a Patridge pattern - square-topped front and square notch rear.  The human eye can center a target on the top surface of a wide front sight very easily.  The Sapergia brothers use a large round front sight and a very shallow V rear to very good effect from what I hear.  Both approaches use the same principals of optics - give your eyes lots of light to work with!

I have made fat-boy sights for about a dozen folks and every one basically said something like " #@!! $#@*! I can shoot my muzzle-loader again!"

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Acer Saccharum]

At my age, I am beginning to see TWO front sights.

[Scota4570]

Guys less than 60 don't realize what we're are talking about...I didn't fully realize the full extent of the problem; now I do.
[/quote]

I absolutely do too.  I had 20/10 vision as a kid.  As a young adult I developed an astigmatism but still corrected to 20:15.  Now my lenses have lost flexibility and I struggle with bifocals for reading, computer glasses  and high powered readers for shop work.  I also have the Luxo lamp lighted magnifier int he shop. 

It has nothing to do with shooting well, focus on the front sight, squeeze and follow through.  A wide front sight is important.  A partridge set up is about the best for me.  Trapdoor and 03 Springfield sights are unusable for me. 

My shooting coach/friend had terrible vision toward the end.  He's still stand up with his M1A and beat the tar out of us kids. 

One thing that may help a lot is pinhole glasses.  The ones that look like an electric razor foil are amazing.  You will look like an insect but all will be in focus.   

[Acer Saccharum]

My shootin buddy makes a pinhole in a piece of black electric tape and sticks it on the lens of his glasses. This puts target, front sight and rear sight all in focus.

You still have to look at the front sight.

[al56]

Thanks for all the replys.  I soldered a small piece of brass tubing in the notch of the rear sight and it helps me see the front sight a lot better.  But i still need to show that peeps existed in  the 18th century in case someone challenges me.
I know that not a lot of firearms had them, but some did.  I just need to be able to show pics and references.

[RAT]

Peep sights may disqualify you in some competition, so be advised.

I know a guy... he drilled a small hole in the rear sight just to the side of the notch. He sighted in the gun, not with the notch, but using the hole as a peep. You'd have to look close to even notice the hole. The rear sight looked normal at a distance. Of course, you still have to be able to see through the hole with the rear sight 12" or so along the barrel.

[Kermit]

Interesting that we long eschewed the use of aperture sights as inauthentic. Now we're old enough to need them and we're looking for documentation to prove them HC. 

I'm in the geezer group who needs them. I'd like to hear the answers.

[Mike Brooks]

I used to have superman vision. Open sights no problemo. Now the rear sight is invisible. Peep sights are good now. My favorite option is a scope....I'm young again then.

[kaintuck]

sights???

sold all my pistols years back........

getting old ain't for sissies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marc n tomtom

[Mike Brooks]

sights???

sold all my pistols years back........

getting old ain't for sissies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marc n tomtom

For some odd reason pistol sights aren't a problem for me.

[davec2]

Al56,

Here you go....old guns with peep sights

[Acer Saccharum]

Yep, you nailed it Dave. I have a barrel, of Turkish make, that hails from the 16th century. It has the same rear peep sight configuration.

You still need to check you sights with the range officer if it's a shoot that specifies certain kind of sights. In my Saratoga shoots 'any iron' would qualify peep sights and shaders.

[whitebear]

At my age, I am beginning to see TWO front sights.

In that case make a new rear sight with two notches in it!

[al56]

Hey Mike Brooks where did you find the rear sight on the jagear?

[LRB]

Here is a very simple peep. It is brazed to the tang. I believe the hole is 3/32". Small, hardly noticeable, and works very well. All adjustments are made with the front sight. I made a brass filler plate to take the place of the old open rear sight.

[Mike Brooks]

Hey Mike Brooks where did you find the rear sight on the jagear?

TOTW

[tiswell]

 At the CLA show in Lewisburg  there was a gun maker that had his personal rifle on display. He had taken a strip of metal and formed a peep sight that fastened by way of a longer tang screw. The screw was a neat fit in the tang as well as the sight. The rear of it extended to the rear of the tang, so everything was metal on metal, no damage to the wood. The peep portion was oriented about where LRB's sight is. He kept his rear sight on the barrel, as he said it didn't bother him being there.

 It was a very simple solution, but I had never seen it done before.  At the time I thought it would be of special interest to older shooters who may be able to increase their target accuracy or extend their effective humane hunting distance without permanently altering their barrels.

                                                                                         Blessings, Bill 

[galudwig]

I have a primitive "peep" sight on my deer rifle (.50 cal Allen Martin Schimmel).  Years ago I found a swivel base screw that was designed for a Brown Bess musket (or so it was advertised).  In place of a normal bolt head, they machined a ball/base on the top of a 8x32 tang bolt.  They then drilled a hole through the middle of the ball to allow a swivel screw to pass through it.  Being a fan of peep sights, the wheels began to turn.

I filed each side of the ball off to leave it with the flat "lollipop" shape.  I then carefully filed the underside of the base to match the shape of the countersink in the tang.  After installing it, I found that when the front sight is centered in the aperture, it is also centered in the rear sight notch (although it looks like you are holding the front sight high in the rear sight).  The rifle shoots to point of aim at 75 yards with this setup and I have killed ten deer with it so far. 



One thing I like about this setup is that when I want to shoot this rifle in an open sight match, all I have to do is swap out the "peep" tang screw for a flat-top tang screw.  The open rear sight stays in place all the time.



I shoot a high front sight and did most of the initial sight adjustments with it as LRB mentioned. 

galudwig
 

[vladp]

I use a variable iris on my glasses, adjust the size until the rear sight is sharp