Yet another lube question......

[Longone]

Has SPG or Lyman Gold black powder lube been tried as a PRB lube?  I tried a search for it but came up empty. If the LR blackpowder cartridge guys like it someone must have experimented with PRB.

Longone

[Hungry Horse]

This is two different lubes, designed for two different purposes. BP cartridge lubes are not designed to make loading easier, they are designed to keep fouling soft. IMO, both of these are two stiff, and sticky for muzzleloaders. I prefer venison tallow, mixed with vasaline, or bear grease, just to make it softer and more manageable.

                    Hungry Horse

[redheart]

Hungry Horse is correct! It's too stiff and sticky. I melted it into some patches with a microwave. It was hard to get down the bore and fouled terribly. I gave up after 4 shots. I have heard of someone using it, but I don't know how unless it was mixed with an oil or tallow.

[smylee grouch]

Its a great lube for what it was intended for but has way too much bees wax for PRB. Just my humble opinion.

[Daryl]

Both of those bullet lubes are superb  for their intended use.
For hunting, use bear oil, marmot oil, Neetsfoot oil or Track's "mink oil".  These all work well for that purpose. Make certain you check your point of impact when changing lubes. Also, when switching to a slippery oil or grease, you may have to increase the powder charge to get your 'bast' accuracy back.  Your rifle will tell you.

[Longone]

Thanks for the replies. I imagine from what you say that when it's protected by a driving band it works well but not real happy with an open flame bearing down on it.

Longone

[Mad Monk]

A little explanation of the actual function of the patch lube.

To describe the patch lube as a lubricant is not really accurate.  You are applying a very thin film of "lube" on the bore before you ignite the powder charge which then drives the projectile up the bore.  While the powder charge is burning, and shortly after, you have the products of the powder combustion being deposited on the surface of the bore.  If the combustion products are deposited on bare bore metal they can adhere and be a bit difficult to remove.  The lube film, in effects, acts as a release agent much as release agents are used in the molding of plastic and rubber compounds in industry.  The lube film should allow the powder combustion deposits to be easily moved over the metal.  As when loading a subsequent round without first swabbing the bore.

The type of lube used may complicate this.  Some wax lubes work well if the surface of the bore is above the melting point of the wax.  The wax then being a liquid film.  But if the temperature of the surface of the bore is below the melting point of the wax the wax film will act as a glue and hold the fouling in place.  When you look at what Daryl suggests these oils are always a liquid no matter what the bore surface temperature is.

Then we get into cleaning.  The oils mentioned may be effected by the degree of alkalinity of the powder combustion residue.  The combustion residue is mainly potassium carbonate.  Or potash.  Which had long been used in soap making where animal fats and oils were converted into soap.  So simple cleanup with water is possible.  But if your lube is wax based you must resort to hot water in order to melt the wax and carry it out of the bore in hot soapy water used to scrub the bore.  The degree of alkalinity in the powder combustion residue has no effect on the waxes.  They can't be "saponified".

Mad Monk

[WadePatton]

A little explanation of the actual function of the patch lube.

To describe the patch lube as a lubricant is not really accurate...

Oh i love it when MM puts the facts out there to ward off notions and lore.

Thanks MM!

[Mad Monk]

A little explanation of the actual function of the patch lube.

To describe the patch lube as a lubricant is not really accurate...

Oh i love it when MM puts the facts out there to ward off notions and lore.

Thanks MM!

My 36 years of industrial experience keeps surfacing even though I am long retired.  Or as I joke.  The good Lord gave mankind a few simple basic principles because we gets confused easily.  Once you know the basic principles you can deal with a wide range of things.

The other week I was going through a pile of old cds with a lot of my old work files on them.  Ran across a paper I did on bore fouling.  Passed it on to Tom DeCare and I think it is up on his web page.  Measuring the weight of the fouling left in the bore of the gun and the percentage of the original charge weight it represented.  Then measuring amount of fouling at different points in the bore.  Then looked at how a single can of powder could give widely different fouling on two different days of shooting. That is when I got into the thing about gas temperature during the firing of the gun and how increasing gas temperatures could make a big difference in the amount of fouling in the bore and its physical condition.

Mad Monk

[Jerry V Lape]

To answer the question about who might have used SPG - I have used it as my hunting lube for about 15 years.  And because I am primarily a hunter, all the range work I do is with it as well.  I also happen to shoot black powder cartridge rifles.  It works well for me giving me good accuracy and good patch protection.  I smear it on one side of the patch and use that side against the bore.  Except for the range I seldom fire more than one shot per season.  I will not dispute Mad Monk's discussion on what is happening to this waxy compound when fired in the barrel.  But I have never had any particular trouble cleaning the bore afterwards with either a 1:5 mix of Ballistol for solvent followed by straight Ballistol or Breakfree CLP.  Not a high volume shooter and the stuff was handy.  One of these days I will try Mink Oil.  Didnt have success with Wonderlube. 

[Daryl]

Interesting, Jerry.  When Taylor and I were shooting our cap-lock pistols, checking sights and loads, I had some REAL bullets loaded. Hmmm - maybe I mentioned this previously? Anyway, I shot a whack of those which were lubed with BP Gold, then went back to loading and shooting patched balls, lubed with Mr.Flintlock's lube. I had no difficulty loading and accuracy was all one could hope for as I stopped wearing my glasses and could actually see the front sight better.  My group at 38 yards shrunk to about 1 1/2"- rested - both hands on a bag.  The bullet lube seemed to work very well, indeed and did not cake the powder in the bore as loading patched balls afterwards was, as noted, quite easy as it always is. No wiping was needed, nor performed at any time during the shooting.