Historically correct woven powder horn/bag straps??????

[Kentuck917]

My wife bought an inkle loom to weave powder horn and bag straps for me, and we were wondering what materials are historically correct for the straps--wool, linen, hemp or cotton? Or are all correct? Just looking for feedback and interested in what different folks prefer. New to the forum; looking forward to talking to people that share my love for primitives.

[James Rogers]

Hi and welcome,
 No expert here and some may come along shortly but I am not sure if there is a historically correct inkle woven powder horn or bag strap prior to circa 1890's or so.

[skillman]

A very good question. The Inkle loom didn't come about till the 20th century. However the box/tape loom was around in our time frame and it produced nice little "tapes" or straps. I believe that what would be even more correct would be cordage made on a lucet. These date way back and were very common. I had the privilege of watching Maryellen Pratt use one at our Gunmakers Fair and she whipped out cordage toot sweet. A backstrap loom is also very correct and it would make larger items. I'm sure there were many ways available for woven straps to come about but I also remember what a dear friend and weaver told me many years ago. Women were so busy trying to do all the daily necessities that they had little time for frills. She believed that any woven straps would have been no wider than needed. Remember that the thread or yarn had to be hand made too.
Just some thoughts. Interesting question too.

Steve

[Mark Elliott]

I loved the straps made by Shawna Matthews.   I would never pass her table without buying a few.  I still have a few literally handing around as decoration.  I used a lot of them on bags and horns.  However,  as I studied original bags and horns more,  I noticed that I rarely saw woven straps except on a very few 19th century bags, and they were often rather crude and looked like they were salvaged off something else.    A lot of times,  straps where no more than some linen or hemp cord or a very thin leather strap.   Rarely were they the colorful, robust, leather and woven straps we like to use today   So,  I gradually moved away from the woven straps and lined bags to ones that were plainer and more like the original examples still around.    Of course,  if you only make what was made in the 18th & early 19th century,  it would get rather boring for us in the 21st century. 

[David Rase]

If you want to be more historically correct you could buy a set of cards for tablet (card weaving).  Tablet weaving dates back to ancient Egypt.  A card or tablet woven strap is much stronger than an inkle loom strap due to the twisting of the yarn.  You still will not see many woven straps but at least a tablet woven strap would be plausible.
David 

[Nate McKenzie]

Woven straps are pretty but they don't slide on your shoulder to raise the horn to pore it in the measure. I prefer stiff harness leather.

[Horner75]

I feel that inkle woven straps are just one of those items that some B/P people have excepted as being authentic or in the class of "if they would of had it, they would of used it".   I feel that leather or plain hemp types of straps were probably more common.

[T.C.Albert]

It does indeed seem that leather was the predominant choice of strapping...for pouches at least...
I have seen quite a few original woven pouch straps...or at least the remnants of them, and some were very fancy...meaning multicolored, and tightly woven...most seemed to be made of coarser linen
or hemp cord...various colors being used to make nice pleasing patterns...the problem with any kind of
woven pouch strap is how to attach it...in contemporary work you see all kinds of creative techniques used...especially rings...in my opinion this is where we, myself included, often start to really stray from the old works...
tc

[Frank Barker]

Thank you Tim for correctly answering the Gentleman's question. Hope to see you at Lexington next week.

Kind Regards
Frank Barker

[David R. Pennington]

Joseph Doddridge writes in his "Notes on the Settlement and Indian Wars of the Western Parts of Virginia and Pennsylvania from 1763 to 1783...", (first printed 1824 by the author, my reprint 1989 by McClain Printing Co., Parsons, WV) ---- quoting page 115:
 "Young as I was, I was possessed of an art which was of great use. It was that of weaving shot-pouch straps, belts and garters. I could make my loom and weave a belt in less than one day. Having a piece of board about four feet long, an inch auger, spike gimlet, and drawing knife, I needed no other tools or materials for making my loom. It frequently happened that my weaving proved serviceable to the family, as I often sold a belt for a days work, or making an hundred rails. So that, although a boy, I could exchange my labor for that of a full grown person for an equal length of time."
According to this first person account woven straps and the loom required are not only historically correct but were quite valuable. Imagine the labor required to produce an hundred fence rails in a day with an axe. How many of us today would be able to do that?
 

[Mike R]

I personally use finger woven horn straps on two of my horns--generally can't go wrong with them.  Loomed straps were available and I am not sure how one tells which model loom was used--if you carry a modern made repro rifle you can bet much of it was made with modern tools, so I wouldn't personally get the vapors over what loom was used on a strap--just me...

[mr. no gold]

There are a number of surviving, grandly, carved powderhorns from the 1750s and 1760s that still have their woven straps. Of great interest is that some of them have pony beads worked into the weave, making them very attractive, and valuable. Some bead experts maintain that these are some of the oldest known American Indian bead work, as we know it.
Dick

[James Rogers]

So how does one distinguish between inkle woven straps and period correct weaving?

[skillman]

Most of us probably couldn't tell the difference except for the width. I know several ladies who wouldn't have a problem though. Any wide weaving was probably done, so I'm told, on a floor loom or with a back strap loom. Box or tape looms didn't produce very wide work. The Inkle loom has the benefit of holding tension on the work as you weave it. Most(but not all) box looms do not hold tension. The weaver has to do it as they're weaving, making it more difficult to get a nice even strap. I'm kind of in over my head on all this and Pam is off to a weaving seminar for a week. I just know I'm beat over the head for my mistakes by the weaver in the family. It was nice when she didn't pay any attention to this hobby. Be careful what you wish for!

Steve

[T*O*F]

So how does one distinguish between inkle woven straps and period correct weaving?

Pilgrims wear inkle loom woven straps, leg ties, and sashes woven from modern polyester yarn in a variety of obtuse colors.  They eventually end up as blanket shoot prizes where they get passed on when another pilgrim falls in love with them.

[Horner75]

First thing you do is ask the weaver who made the woven item.  Card and finger woven items can have a larger variety of pattern designs than Inkle woven items, not just color variations and more simpler weave pattern structure.  I also think, that just about anybody can learn to Inkle weave in a very short time (One hour or less), where it take a lot time and a lot of practice to be proficient in card weaving and ESPECIALLY finger weaving.

That's my observation of it anyway.

Rick

[Jerry V Lape]

It would be great to have some closeup photos of the various types of weaves (finger, card inkle etc) so that our selections could be more sophisticated.  This subject has been discussed several times over the years on here and yet no one seems to have the items to show us.  If you have such an item or items please post a good clear photo. 

[David R. Pennington]

I don't think I know what card weaving is. Can anyone explain it? Wonder what type of loom Doddridge built with a 4 ft. board, 1 inch auger, draw knife and gimlet? Inkle loom, or something similar? (see my earlier post).

[T*O*F]

If you have such an item or items please post a good clear photo.

Hand woven bag (twined) with period correct strap.  Don't know how the strap was woven, but I seem to recall it's a Wilde.

[Jerry V Lape]

TOF, That is a very nice bag.  In comparing that strap to ones I have made on an Inkle loom my uneducated eye sees no difference other than in the yarn used and a more careful control of the tension on the strap edges than I have managed.  Hopefully another with more discernment than me will come in and clarify.

[T*O*F]

I also remember paying $40 in 1990's currency for the strap.  I made the bag myself.

[RAT]

The easiest way to tell a finger woven strap from a loom woven strap is that the weave is on the diagonal. Indian woven work that incorporate beads would be finger woven.

When doing loom woven stay away from really bright colors and heavy contrast (no white with contrasting red). Hand dyed material was typically more soft in color. And stay away from the "typical" patterns sold by "big" commercial traders (Dixie Gun Works for example).

Good reference books are the ones by Madison Grant (Powder Horns and Their Architecture and The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch). Several woven straps are shown, but all in B & W.

[Horner75]

The strap on your bag looks to be Inkle woven.

JMHO

[T*O*F]

The strap on your bag looks to be Inkle woven.

Humble opinions aside, it's not!!

[G. Elsenbeck]

Nice bag Dave.
gary